Transcript: Gary Cohn on "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan," Feb. 1, 2026

The pursuing is the transcript of the interrogation with Gary Cohn, IBM vice president and erstwhile manager of the U.S. National Economic Council, that aired connected "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan" connected Feb. 1, 2026.

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MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome backmost to Face the Nation. For an update present connected the economy, we're joined by Gary Cohn, who was the apical economical advisor to President Trump during his archetypal word successful office. He is present the vice president of IBM. Good to person you backmost here.

GARY COHN, IBM VICE CHAIRMAN: Thanks for having me.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So the president has this editorial successful The Wall Street Journal arguing each the economical occurrence that we are seeing close present is owed to his tariff policies. The legality of that, of immoderate of those tariffs are being debated close present earlier the Supreme Court. How factual bash you measure his statement to be?

COHN: Well, I deliberation we request to instrumentality a measurement back. The system is rather beardown close present connected top-line growth. So if you look astatine GDP, gross home product, which is the wide output of the U.S. economy, we're trending astir 5% close now, which is simply a precise precocious maturation complaint successful the United States, overmuch higher than the baseline we've had for the past decade. So if you look astatine that fig alone, and that's a bully fig to look at, things are going well. The ostentation complaint has travel down to the precocious 2%. It's inactive higher than we'd similar it. And the unemployment complaint is ticking up, but it's inactive successful a tenable spot astir 4, 4.5%. So overall, the system is rather beardown close now. That said, we've got an absorbing system close now. We've got this monolithic wealthiness effect astatine the apical end. And we've got hardworking Americans who are having a precise hard clip paying their bills, and they're suffering successful this economy. And I deliberation the White House has acknowledged that they're suffering. I deliberation portion of the crushed the president wrote the op-ed was to effort and get retired successful beforehand of radical who are having a hard clip paying their bills and gathering their expenses. The White House is going connected the offensive. The president is going to walk clip retired connected the roadworthy talking astir affordability. Affordability is going to beryllium the issue.

MARGARET BRENNAN: He says it's a hoax.

COHN: Well, I deliberation affordability volition beryllium the contented betwixt present and the midterm elections.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. And we cognize the main of unit has said she wants the president retired determination talking astir the economy. But you conscionable mentioned what consumers are feeling. The White House says radical volition conscionable consciousness amended aft taxation time. You wrote that archetypal taxation instrumentality that was past conscionable renewed and extended by Congress. But you are seeing companies similar Amazon denote its cutting 16,000 firm jobs. MasterCard cutting 4% of its 35,000-person workforce. UPS, 30,000 jobs gone. Dow, 4,500. Home Depot, 800. If everything's trending successful a affirmative direction, what is going connected there?

COHN: So we did spot implicit 60,000 further layoffs travel retired of companies past week during the net season. It's typically erstwhile companies speech astir managing expenses. Companies contiguous person 2 basal things going on. Number one, companies hoarded labour during and aft COVID. When we were moving from location and radical were remote, productivity went down and companies were disquieted astir getting the workloads done. So astir companies extremity up hiring further radical oregon not letting anyone go. So workforces ballooned. And I deliberation we're present successful the portion of the rhythm wherever firm America is precise comfy astir replacing people. They're precise comfy astir hiring people. So they're downsizing their headcount from hoarding to benignant of a much naturalized level. And I deliberation a batch of those numbers that we saw this week being announced were companies rightsizing themselves. In summation to that, we person seen input costs for companies spell up rather dramatically, whether it beryllium labour cost, commodity costs oregon tariffs, arsenic we agree. Someone has to wage the tariffs. So arsenic companies are trying to equilibrium their equation--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --The president says there's nary outgo to it that's going to wounded a company.

COHN: But helium besides says that there's $200 cardinal positive sitting successful an relationship of wealth they've collected. So the money's being paid by someone. So the corporations are paying the money. They're trying to fig retired however to woody with input costs going up, tariffs going off, outgo of labour going up, and not truly having the quality to rise prices to the user due to the fact that we've seen however pugnacious it is for a batch of Americans to spend things today. So companies are walking that good enactment betwixt absorbing input costs and not being capable to rise prices.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So the White House, arsenic you said, they are alert they person a problem, adjacent if they don't privation to explicitly accidental they person a occupation politically due to the fact that of that lower-end consumer. But erstwhile you look, 1 of the ideas being floated by the president is simply a one-year headdress connected recognition paper rates astatine 10% and someway getting Congress to compel that. He signed an enforcement bid to bounds organization investors from buying single-family homes. And past he's floated this thought of $2,000 checks, which whitethorn oregon whitethorn not necessitate Congress. What bash you deliberation astir these consumer-focused parts of the plan? Are they viable?

COHN: Look, I deliberation it's admirable that they're knowing that radical are currency trapped today. They're stuck with not capable disposable income. So I deliberation the White House is throwing retired ideas that volition enactment much disposable income backmost successful consumers' hands--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --These are not ideas you would person endorsed erstwhile you were successful that advisor role--

COHN: --Unfortunately, unfortunately, those ideas astir apt don't lick the problem. In fact, the recognition paper rates astir apt person the other effect. So recognition paper companies complaint radical a risk-adjusted complaint to lend them money. Obviously, worst credits, radical that person the highest probability of defaulting wage the highest rates. If you enactment a headdress connected rates that tin beryllium charged, what bash companies do? They really halt lending to the riskiest portion of the population. And truthful their consumers volition suffer purchasing power, not summation purchasing power. You know, connected the lodging side, the 1 happening I punctual radical is the organization accumulation of lodging happened aft the '08 fiscal crisis. When we had a monolithic glut of houses successful the United States, prices were plummeting. So the fiscal markets stepped successful and they enactment a enactment underneath the lodging market. And we can't hide however important these fiscal players are successful times of stress.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we should besides accidental you worked for Goldman Sachs and were president determination for a precise agelong time, including during that fiscal crisis. But let's not relitigate immoderate of that, but speech astir idiosyncratic you got to cognize during that time. That was Kevin Warsh, who was a Fed politician and is present President Trump's prime to beryllium the adjacent president of the Federal Reserve. He's called for each sorts of reforms of the Fed. What bash you expect from him successful office?

COHN: So, look, I deliberation we're precise fortunate to person Kevin to beryllium the nominee. Kevin has a unsocial inheritance coming successful arsenic the chair. As you said, helium was a subordinate of the Fed committee before. He was determination during the 2008 fiscal crisis. He was instrumental successful that crisis. What I mean by that is erstwhile banks were going done stress, and we saw a batch of slope mergers, we saw a batch of assets being moved astir the system, Kevin was the constituent idiosyncratic astatine the Fed. He was progressive successful each 1 of those discussions. And I genuinely judge without Kevin's expertise and without Kevin being there, we would not person travel retired of the 2008 situation arsenic good arsenic we have. So he's precise highly qualified. He's going to instrumentality the Fed backmost to its accepted benignant of norms. You know, I deliberation Kevin's going to enactment retired of a batch of the non-financial issues. He's going to beryllium involved, obviously, successful mounting involvement complaint policy. There is simply a unit close present for involvement rates to spell lower. I deliberation that helium volition astir apt travel done connected the 1 to 2 cuts this year. Kevin besides has a presumption that the Fed should not person the ample equilibrium sheet. You know, the Fed went successful and bought tremendous magnitude of securities--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --Quantitative easing (inaudible)

COHN: I deliberation that Kevin volition reverse that. I deliberation helium volition beryllium looking for the Fed to merchantability down their equilibrium sheet. And connected the regulatory front, I deliberation Kevin is a, is simply a traditionalist believing that we request beardown regularisation successful the United States, but it has to beryllium regularisation that works and allows the marketplace to turn and allows the user to person entree to capital. So I deliberation helium is really the wholly close prime successful this play of time. And connected Friday, erstwhile his information came out, the markets spoke.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah.

COHN: And I deliberation you person to look astatine what the markets archer you due to the fact that they're real-time feedback indicators.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.

COHN: So we saw the dollar fortify by astir 1%. We saw metallic driblet by 25%. We saw golden driblet by 10%--

MARGARET BRENNAN: --The president besides spoke past nighttime astatine a meal and said he's going to writer Warsh if helium doesn't little involvement rates. You instrumentality that arsenic a joke?

COHN: Yes, I instrumentality it arsenic a joke. Look, I deliberation the president wholly understands the independency of the Fed. Kevin has been a staunch advocator for independency of the Fed.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, he's got a confirmation process to spell through, and we volition spot if Thom Tillis's petition for the Department of Justice's probe into the existent Fed seat stands successful the mode of really getting him through. But we'll way that. Gary Cohn, ever bully to person you here.

COHN: Thanks for having me.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll beryllium close back.