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The pursuing is the afloat transcript of the interrogation with Calley Means, erstwhile elder advisor to Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., a information of which aired connected "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan" connected Nov. 8, 2026.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Calley, convey you for coming successful and talking to us. President Trump has announced that Chief of Staff Susie Wiles has near the White House. The departure coincides with this resounding Republican nonaccomplishment successful the midterms. But also, you went nationalist with immoderate precise circumstantial allegations of corruption and a telephone to cleanable house. Was it your volition to get her removed?
CALLEY MEANS: Yes. I deliberation President Trump has been subverted by radical that are beholden to peculiar interests and not what President Trump ran on, and what voters voted for. I led the MAHA inaugural astatine the White House. And Stephen Miller said it precocious successful his speech, the bosom of MAHA is that we are the lone primate humans that woody with pediatric crab and rampant crab rates. And it's evidently due to the fact that of our environment. It's due to the fact that of pesticides. It's due to the fact that of that- 70% of a child's fare is ultra-processed food. It's due to the fact that we're not retired successful the sun. It's basic, basal stuff. And that, I think, was truly the bosom of the MAHA movement. I deliberation a bosom of what President Trump ran on. And there's precise elemental things. And Americans voted to alteration those things. And I deliberation underneath Trump's nose, successful galore cases, you had a radical of erstwhile lobbyists, catering to the vaping industry, catering to the ultra-processed nutrient industry, catering to the pharmaceutical industry, catering to the pesticide manufacture and doing their bidding with an excuse that we request their wealth for the midterms and truly request to really spell against what voters said, but request their wealth explicitly. That's what they said. And I deliberation that--
MARGARET BRENNAN: --Who's they?
CALLEY MEANS: Susie and her cohort. Susie and Richard Walters, who is really not idiosyncratic astir radical know, but was 1 of the astir almighty radical successful the country, was the de facto main of unit erstwhile Susie was getting crab treatment. Walker Barrett and James Blair, a precise adjacent knit crew, who explicitly catered to peculiar interests against the volition of the voters. I deliberation a batch of this happened without Trump's afloat knowledge. I don't deliberation President Trump afloat knew that immoderate of these advisors were taking wealth from the industries we ran connected warring against. At the time, they're giving explicit argumentation advice--
MARGARET BRENNAN: Directly taking money?
CALLEY MEANS: Directly, of course. Yes. Tony Fabrizio--
(NOTE: Richard Walters told CBS News helium submitted his resignation Friday. Susie Wiles told CBS News that President Trump "did much for MAHA than immoderate president earlier oregon apt immoderate president successful the future.")
MARGARET BRENNAN: --he's a pollster. (CROSSTALK)
CALLEY MEANS: --is 1 of the astir almighty radical successful the country. And each azygous furniture caput was conniving connected however to person Tony Fabrizio of their argumentation positions due to the fact that immoderate argumentation went done Tony Fabrizio for a governmental check. You know, helium was successful the White House each the time, each azygous week. And--
MARGARET BRENNAN: He runs an extracurricular polling steadfast that the White House relies on.
CALLEY MEANS: Yeah, but- but that's- that's a name- I mean, helium was- helium was 1 of the astir impactful players successful White House argumentation making. One of the astir almighty radical successful the country. He had a immense accidental successful immoderate argumentation that got done. And arsenic helium is opining connected the governmental relevance of doing, you know, steadfast nutrient and steadfast schoolhouse lunches or, you know, taking connected the pesticide manufacture oregon taking connected large pharma, which President Trump ran on. He was getting paid by Pfizer oregon by Pepsi. To this day, it's connected his website close now. You tin spot it connected the Joe Rogan podcast I conscionable did, we pulled up his website. It's advertised close now. He solicits clients close present and lists those radical arsenic his clients.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you deliberation each of his polling is compromised?
CALLEY MEANS: I'm conscionable stating facts. I'm conscionable stating--
MARGARET BRENNAN: But that's your mentation that you're putting forward.
CALLEY MEANS: Yeah, I'm conscionable stating a information that we were trying to get a 90% enactment argumentation done of defining ultra-processed food, and helium said the foodstuff isn't worthy the compression connected this, and advised against it, portion being paid by Pepsi.
(NOTE: Following the decision of Face the Nation's broadcast, Tony Fabrizio released the pursuing statement: "Anyone with web entree and a mates spare minutes could find ample grounds that Calley Means' allegations that I americium successful the pouch of Big Pharma is not lone ridiculous, but demonstrably false… I person adjacent encouraged GOP Members of Congress to run connected the MFN issue, which would harm Big Pharma's bottommost line").
MARGARET BRENNAN: I privation to get into the specifics of ultra-processed nutrient successful a moment, due to the fact that it's an important wellness inaugural that you are pushing for. But fto maine inquire you connected this taxable of fundamentally corruption. You went connected Joe Rogan's podcast and made a batch of these allegations.
CALLEY MEANS: Just factual statements of what I yeah, what I experienced starring the MAHA agenda.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Did the president get connection that you were doing that? Do you deliberation that what you laid retired publically was a origin successful Susie Wiles' departure?
CALLEY MEANS: I person nary idea. I cognize the president is adjacent with Joe Rogan and appreciates his opinion. You know, radical tin ticker the podcast. I promote everyone to bash so. It goes into details of factual statements.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Because she resigned Thursday.
CALLEY MEANS: But I deliberation that President Trump yeah, you know, I can't talk to what's going done President Trump's head. But I deliberation with his elevation of Stephen Miller and again, speaking for my world, speaking for MAHA, Stephen Miller, who understands the firm seizure of our governmental strategy is peculiarly erstwhile it comes to wellness care, amended than any, I would say, authorities official, that I've ever seen. Who wants to spell hard against peculiar interests, who I deliberation made a transportation to President Trump, we're going to spell backmost to run promises, America First principles, that President Trump got changeable and suffered truthful overmuch successful bid to beryllium a historical president and bash large things. We're going to get distant from the Ballard, which is Susie's lobbying group, controlled argumentation process and towards an America First argumentation process. I deliberation that's what Stephen wants to do. I deliberation that's what resonated with President Trump. So I deliberation it's a bold connection that President Trump made, pushing Susie retired and- and elevating Stephen Miller. And I deliberation it's a precise bully motion for America.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, RFK Jr, the HHS secretary, who you're very, precise adjacent to, said "Stephen Miller is the strongest MAHA protagonist successful the administration. It's clip to unleash the Kraken." What- what bash you instrumentality that to mean?
CALLEY MEANS: What I instrumentality it to mean is really an opening for Republicans and Democrats. "Unleash the Kraken" means doing things that substance to the American people. And erstwhile it comes to wellness care, these are wholly nonpartisan things. I mean, I spent each azygous time with Bobby Kennedy, arsenic you said, astir apt much clip with them than astir anyone. And what helium says, what helium pushes his squad on, is the nonstop aforesaid things that Democrats are moving on. It is taking connected firm capture. It's taking connected corruption. It's taking connected large pharma incentives. It's making our nutrient healthier. That is what helium is pushing his squad to do. And I deliberation radical would beryllium shocked to- if they saw, I deliberation truly however wholesome his satellite is to beryllium rather frank. I mean, these- these are universal, precise fashionable ideas he's trying to propulsion on. So "unleash the Kraken" means knowing the symptom Americans are feeling, the vexation they're feeling. And I deliberation we are much person to a breaking constituent with our institutions and Americans' vexation with the corruption successful Washington, D.C. President Trump identified that issue. And I deliberation what that means is we are- person an unfastened hand. The medication has an unfastened hand, to really get large things done that are not partisan but really structural.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So connected that point, I perceive that you judge Stephen Miller is an state to the cause, but successful presumption of being an relation successful Washington, I mean, he's radioactive to Democrats. They're already calling for him to beryllium fired. He was the designer of the wide deportation argumentation that proved precise unpopular successful these midterms. Why bash you deliberation helium tin really assistance you get things done connected this cause?
CALLEY MEANS: Yeah, President Trump is the president for the adjacent 2 years. The adjacent 2 years are going to beryllium the astir consequential 2 years successful American history. And I deliberation we should each recognize that our problems are not Trump oregon nary Trump. Stephen Miller, not Stephen Miller. It's the organization corruption successful D.C. that Stephen Miller and President Trump understand. I deliberation there's a batch we tin get unneurotic connected immigration, which is not my issue. I volition accidental that a batch of polls said that that was 1 of- similar really solving the borderline crisis. Stephen Miller did bash that. That was a halfway run promise. That was an existential issue. He is precise competent and helium has dramatically reduced those numbers. So I tin talk with astir authorization from the MAHA perspective. Let's speech astir wellness care. Stephen Miller wants to get transformative things done with Bobby Kennedy and President Trump that are not partisan, but structural. He wants to get the aforesaid things done that Elizabeth Warren and El-Sayed and different radical are moving on. And I deliberation determination is simply a large accidental to travel unneurotic and get immoderate large things done, which, rather frankly, we person to do.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you said earlier this week you deliberation the champion accidental the president has to get things done is to enactment with Bernie Sanders, and Senator-elect Abdul El-Sayed. You mentioned Elizabeth Warren here, but however bash you deliberation those things tin get done successful this environment? Like, what's the happening that is astir tangible here?
CALLEY MEANS: Yeah, I deliberation determination are circumstantial bills, circumstantial issues that they're virtually saying the aforesaid thing. Stephen Miller, President Trump and Bobby Kennedy privation to instrumentality connected the information that we walk two, 3 times much than immoderate different developed state connected wellness attraction and unrecorded shorter. That's intelligibly conscionable corruption.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But the medication pushed-- (CROSSTALK)
CALLEY MEANS: --Pharma prices-- (CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: --Republican measure that pulled backing from premiums, and Medicaid— (CROSSTALK)
CALLEY MEANS: I think- I deliberation Stephen Miller and Bobby Kennedy would beryllium precise amenable to gathering with Democrats, gathering with Republicans who aren't beholden to peculiar interests similar John Thune. And moving retired circumstantial wins connected cause pricing, connected labels for ultra-processed food, connected greater disclosures and processes astatine the FDA truthful we marque definite we person golden prima subject connected the information that the United States is 4% of the world's population, but successful conscionable 20% of the world's herbicides and pesticides, and the caller EPA reappraisal of glyphosate was thrown retired due to the fact that it had ghostwritten probe showing Bayer bribed EPA officials. Can we person EPA reform?
MARGARET BRENNAN: This is simply a cancer-linked herbicide.
CALLEY MEANS: Yeah. So I deliberation they would beryllium happy, and person an outreached manus knowing them to get large things done. They privation to get large things done.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You told Joe Rogan that if you're a peculiar involvement group, you wage Susie Wiles' girl to get thing done. What circumstantial argumentation are you talking astir here? What bash you mean by that?
CALLEY MEANS: Margaret, everyone knows—including you—that this is however it works. They cognize that Continental Strategies (sic.), their gross didn't spell from $0 to $30 million--
MARGARET BRENNAN: --This is simply a governmental lobbying firm.-- (CROSSTALK)
CALLEY MEANS: --A twelvemonth by accident. They, Ballard Partners, wherever Susie worked, became the highest gross generating lobbying steadfast successful the past of quality civilization. That did not hap by accident. These companies that springiness those- those firms wealth are not acting irrationally. Like, similar much people—and I promote much radical to conscionable accidental the truth—President Trump said the information during the campaign, and this civilization that Susie engendered was treating the American radical similar they're stupid. And often, frankly, I deliberation treating President Trump similar he's stupid. Obviously Continental Strategies (sic.) gross exploding, was- was tied to Katie Wiles moving there. And what's an example? The information that Katie was seen successful an anti-American, pro-Russian government, Republika Srpska, recently, and past magically, leaders from that state person a gathering with Susie, and get a pass. She was determination with James Blair and Chris LaCivita, who is precise influential successful this world, collecting- and James and Chris were collecting hundreds of thousands of dollars precise precocious arsenic they were moving the midterm strategy, selling retired President Trump for overseas money. They did not archer President Trump that. They told Susie, my knowing is, they had to have, right? And she intelligibly okayed it. (Susie Wiles told CBS News that she did not person beforehand cognition of Blair's question to Republika Srpska. James Blair besides told CBS that helium did not archer Wiles successful beforehand of his trip. Richard Walters told CBS News that Susie Wiles was told astir LaCivita's travel to Republika Srpska successful beforehand by a 3rd party). But they didn't archer President Trump. That's selling President Trump out. And I tin warrant you this, Margaret, that Stephen Miller volition not beryllium selling the president out, for a mates 100 1000 dollars from a overseas country.
(NOTE: Continental Strategy reported $27.3 cardinal successful gross successful 2025, up from $1.8 cardinal successful gross successful 2024, according to nationalist records disposable nether the Lobbying Disclosure Act. A spokesperson for Continental strategy, speaking for Katie Wiles, told america that "Mr. Means' claims regarding Continental Strategy are inaccurate and baseless" and that the steadfast has "never met with Mr Means, ne'er lobbied for glyphosate, Monsantos (SIC), Bayer, vapes, Kratom, oregon akin policies. Also, his allegations regarding Katie Wiles' information successful the Srpska elections are false, arsenic has been antecedently reported by different media outlets").
(Note: According to Legistorm, which tracks national lobbying activity, Ballard Partners "brought successful astir $82 cardinal successful lobbying gross past year, the highest single-year full by immoderate steadfast successful LegiStorm's data." As of broadcast air, Ballard Partners had not responded to Face the Nation's petition for comment)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you bash know, though, that there's been reporting that immoderate of the president's ain household members person their ain fiscal interests and businesses here. You don't deliberation that is compromising arsenic well?
CALLEY MEANS: I think- I think- I deliberation each question should beryllium asked. Sure. I can't talk to that. What I tin talk to is that I person ne'er seen President Trump person a argumentation inclination against going assertive connected MAHA policies, and I tin besides substantiate that a batch of the things that person been slowed down were done nether his nose.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, aft Susie Wiles left, Secretary Kennedy publically said she brokered his concern with Trump, and past thanked her for helping to bring successful disruptive leaders into HHS. He didn't accidental immoderate of the things that you are saying present close now.
CALLEY MEANS: I consciousness precise comfy with what I said. I consciousness precise comfy with the hundreds of calls I've gotten from lawmakers and elder medication officials thanking maine for what I've done. I consciousness similar I'm speaking for a ample information of the Trump administration, and I'm- I'm very- I'm precise comfy with that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Did Secretary Kennedy cognize you were going to spell nationalist with these allegations?
CALLEY MEANS: No, I- Secretary Kennedy- the- America is very, precise fortunate helium is sitting astatine HHS, and they're precise fortunate that they present person a main of unit and a president to empower truly 90% issues and structural reform. He is simply a antheral of precocious integrity, and- and he- we're fortunate that he's astatine HHS. If helium went to warfare with Susie implicit the past 2 years, helium wouldn't beryllium successful that job. You cognize she's ruthless. So- truthful I deliberation he's executed perfectly. I deliberation helium is, according to Harvard Harris poll, the astir fashionable nationalist authoritative successful America, contempt each the slander. And- and- and there's a existent accidental for Democrats to enactment with him. They're already co-opting his message. Take- I inquire the Democrats instrumentality him astatine his connection that he's sincere, and helium wants to instrumentality the Democrats arsenic sincere truthful they tin get thing done. But I think, from what I'm hearing, we are successful a caller time for the Trump administration, and we person a immense accidental successful the adjacent twelvemonth to bash what President Trump wants, and I cognize helium wants, which is to beryllium a historical president and get things done that we didn't deliberation possible.
(NOTE: As of broadcast air, Secretary Kennedy had not responded to Face the Nation's petition for comment, HHS unit had not responded either)
MARGARET BRENNAN: I privation to speech astir policy. Let maine decorativeness this though, due to the fact that I privation to situation you a small spot here. If you look astatine the caller MAHA league that was conscionable held present successful Washington, determination were large corporations associated with it.
CALLEY MEANS: Right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Walmart, United Healthcare, and past determination were besides companies aligned with MAHA who person wealth to perchance marque successful peptide argumentation changes that Secretary Kennedy has, you know, championed. There are different wellness initiatives and radical who financially could payment from immoderate of these policies. Doesn't that besides hazard compromising integrity?
CALLEY MEANS: I- I- I don't think- I- I don't think- yeah.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Those are besides companies who acceptable to marque money.
CALLEY MEANS: Yeah, I can't talk for what an extracurricular radical does. I don't deliberation immoderate American thinks that Bobby Kennedy is compromised by his idiosyncratic interests.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Were you comfy with that?
CALLEY MEANS: No, no. I didn't emotion it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All those corporations being aligned?
CALLEY MEANS: I didn't privation the framing of it. No, it's not- it's not my event. I didn't- I didn't emotion that. You're talking astir 1 tiny league and 1 tiny group.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It was beauteous big.
CALLEY MEANS: I don't emotion the optics.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I mean, the caput spoke astatine it.
CALLEY MEANS: I don't like- I don't similar the optics.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Dr. Oz spoke astatine it. Russell Brand, the histrion who's--
CALLEY MEANS: --I don't deliberation immoderate American thinks Bobby Kennedy is compromised, and I deliberation each azygous firm involvement should beryllium scrutinized. But- but- but let's beryllium honest, right? Supplement companies aren't making Ballard Partners the highest gross generating steadfast successful the world, right? Peptide companies and compounders are not getting meetings with Ballard, Susie Wiles rigging the system.
MARGARET BRENNAN: No, but they've made--
CALLEY MEANS: Yeah, these are- clasp on--
MARGARET BRENNAN: --have nonstop line--
CALLEY MEANS: These are precise very small. So- so- so, you're talking astir a conference, I'm talking astir a $6 trillion wellness attraction strategy that is perfectly systematically rigged against Americans being steadfast and profiting from Americans being sick, and has had a stranglehold connected the erstwhile regime, right? So that's a large examination Americans request to marque to you referencing a league that accepted immoderate money.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You person been successful the crosshairs of immoderate legislature Democrats who are present going to beryllium empowered successful this caller Congress. They person alleged you person your ain conflicts of involvement due to the fact that you've owned betwixt $25 to $50 cardinal successful banal successful a institution called Truemed done November 2025. At that time, I recognize you had a antithetic status. You were a peculiar authorities employee. Then you became an employee, a imperishable 1 astatine the White House, and immoderate of the arrangements changed. But for those who look astatine that play of time, however tin you code what they accidental are ethical issues--
CALLEY MEANS: Yeah.
MARGARET BRENNAN: --that you had?
CALLEY MEANS: Everybody's struggle should beryllium highly scrutinized. I started a institution to thrust aesculapian spending to workout and steadfast nutrient aft penning a publication astir workout and steadfast food. Through that advocacy, I met Bobby Kennedy, met the Trump administration, and was enactment into government. I became an SGE, and arsenic you said, afloat divested that institution erstwhile I decided to spell successful afloat time. We raised astir earlier the Trump medication started. So, I started a institution to beforehand steadfast nutrient and exercise, and afloat divested that institution against my economical interests to travel into government.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you would enactment with legislature Democrats who privation to question you connected that?
CALLEY MEANS: Oh no, no, no, no, no. The- the person- the person, Auchincloss is simply a troll who I've been warring connected Twitter with for years, and what helium said is defamatory. I'm astir apt going to contented a ineligible announcement to him due to the fact that helium virtually said that I broke the law, which is untrue. And, I'll reply immoderate question, but I afloat divested my holdings.
MARGARET BRENNAN: In a caller interview, you said the medication was blocking wellness policies that you were trying to get passed, and you said specifically they were doing it to instrumentality wealth from the sweetener industry. You besides talked astir large tobacco. Explain that. What did you see?
CALLEY MEANS: So, as- past night, similar yesterday, arsenic Susie Wiles left, her deputies were inactive relentlessly pushing HHS to find a pathway for fruit-flavored vapes. The issues that came from Susie's satellite were not steadfast food, were not, you know, cleaning up pesticides were not, you know, these halfway issues that Bobby Kennedy ran on. I had to steamroll immoderate of those policies done them with President Trump's support, you know, and utilizing outside, you know, advocates similar Joe Rogan. The issues that were being pushed hard successful the erstwhile authorities were- were things similar vapes, which are a immense donor to Ballard Partners, are things similar state presumption heroin.
MARGARET BRENNAN: --Kratom.--
CALLEY MEANS: --Marty Makary bravely enactment a high-tolerance- you know, a low-tolerance bounds connected the- connected those products, which are causing devastation. You fundamentally person opioids being sold astatine state stations. He was pushed out, and that tolerance bounds was accrued 20x, truthful that there's inactive an quality for radical to, you know, bargain aggregate products and get high, which was the nonstop volition of that policy. These are the types of policies that are being pushed- were being pushed, and again, we should beryllium looking forward. It's a caller day, but that's conscionable demonstrably true.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The erstwhile FDA commissioner, Dr. Marty Makary, resigned successful May. And sources adjacent to him said it was owed to unit from baccy companies to marque much disposable what you conscionable said, fruit-flavored vapes, these e-cigarettes. But determination person been allegations that the president himself, Donald Trump pressed for the FDA to let much favorable policies for large baccy due to the fact that of donations to the governmental enactment committees for the midterms that helium himself knew.
CALLEY MEANS: I- I- possibly that's leaked by Susie. I don't know. I- what I saw a batch is that they would acceptable up a speedy gathering with President Trump. They would emblem thing for him- 'oh, this is an important issue.' He'd accidental something, and past they would jam it down, jam it down, saying it's a statesmanlike precedence for their priorities. I don't deliberation President Trump ran, you know, arsenic a superior intent to assistance these industries.
MARGARET BRENNAN: No, helium didn't tally connected it but--
CALLEY MEANS: And I don't- and I don't deliberation that's what helium wants.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You don't deliberation helium knew?
CALLEY MEANS: No, I don't. From- I- I don't deliberation that's wherefore helium is serving arsenic president. I deliberation helium talks to Bobby Kennedy astir doing large transformational things, and what I cognize and what I saw is that there's systematic efforts moving with Ballard, moving with these different radical to assistance these industries. This was the single- this was the azygous astir emphasized country for James Blair, who truly led policy, you know, James Blair was--
MARGARET BRENNAN: He's a governmental strategist.
CALLEY MEANS: --wasn't- James Blair wasn't pushing, you know, calling maine successful and saying, "how tin we, you know, beforehand much steadfast food? How tin we springiness much steadfast nutrient to kids? How tin we, you know, speech astir these MAHA principles?" That ne'er happened. I had to- I had to bulldoze to him. He was relentless connected helping the fruit-flavored vape industry. So--
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, to--
CALLEY MEANS: --that's what I saw.
(NOTE: In effect to Calley Means' allegations, Blair told CBS News, " I didn't beforehand flavored vaping specifically astatine all. I was tasked with driving FDA to marque its process for approving oregon denying nicotine transportation instrumentality applications enactment the mode existent national instrumentality dictates it works, which is that applicants get a yes oregon nary reply connected support successful six months…Calley is intentionally misrepresenting my relation and my work due to the fact that helium opposes the contented entirely. Even though the President himself has made his presumption connected smoking and smoking alternatives known precise publically and has provided wide direction. Calley conscionable doesn't similar it").
MARGARET BRENNAN: So to that point, truthful the baccy institution Reynolds American donated $5 cardinal to a governmental enactment committee backed by Trump a week earlier the medication rolled retired a caller baccy policy.
CALLEY MEANS: Yeah, and that was a large crushed wherefore determination was- that was a large statement from Susie's squad connected wherefore we request to bash this. That, you know, I didn't perceive this specifically with vapes, but with the sweetener industry, I, you know, it was nonstop speech astir however we request the sweetener industry's wealth for the midterms. So, you know, erstwhile you person the midterm strategy, and- and a content that wealth for the midterms is much important than elector promises, you're fundamentally capable to excuse everything. And that was, you know, those donations, right, is what Ballard helps you do. They assistance you donate to the close place, and, and past that's much of a crushed to bash things.
(NOTE: RAI Services Company, an affiliate of Reynolds American, the genitor institution of RJ Reynolds, donated $5,000,000 MAGA, INC. connected April 30, 2026, according to information from the Federal Election Commission)
MARGARET BRENNAN: So the New York Times reported that baccy lobbyists had really been astatine the president's Florida play people with him astatine lunch, advocating to the president. He picked up the telephone and helium called RFK Jr.
CALLEY MEANS: Yeah, Bri-
MARGARET BRENNAN: Did that happen?
CALLEY MEANS: I don't know. Brian Ballard was astatine that meeting, and I cognize that Susie acceptable up a batch of meetings with Brian Ballard to get a talking constituent that the president supports something. Again, I bash not deliberation effect flavored vapes oregon state presumption heroin is immoderate percent of what President Trump is reasoning astir oregon wants to do.
(NOTE: Susie Wiles told CBS News that she had thing to bash with the baccy manufacture gathering with the president astatine his play club).
MARGARET BRENNAN: Because determination is simply a signifier here. It was successful the archetypal Trump medication that the FDA tried to ace down connected kratom, what you're calling state presumption heroin. They besides tried to ace down connected effect flavored vapes. The FDA commissioner astatine that time, Dr. Scott Gottlieb, left.
CALLEY MEANS: --And-
MARGARET BRENNAN: --And yet, successful the 2nd Trump administration, these precise aforesaid issues are surfacing again. Are you definite the president--
CALLEY MEANS: --I am-
MARGARET BRENNAN: --isn't good with that?
CALLEY MEANS: I americium definite that the president is- realizes that helium has a generational conjugation with Secretary Kennedy. He respects Secretary Kennedy. He wants to spell hard connected the contented of improving wellness for children. I deliberation helium had severe, mediocre proposal from people, I- I deliberation who treated him similar a babe successful galore respects and utilized him.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The president's unit dainty him similar a baby?
CALLEY MEANS: Of course, they would- they would artifact entree to and accusation to him each the time. I- I would beryllium not amazed astatine all, you know, if they had precise abbreviated conversations connected these issues, you know, wherever the president's highly engaged and the president said, "okay, whatever." And, and then--
MARGARET BRENNAN: --Or he's not interested.
CALLEY MEANS: --They usage yeah, and they usage that, like, similar it's each it was each like, "the president wants this." I don't deliberation this is the president's apical issue, and I deliberation we person a main of unit present that wants to exorcise this civilization from the White House, exorcise the radical that are inactive pushing effect flavored vapes to this time arsenic their apical priority, and get, you know, to doing large things. And I deliberation there's a- this is simply a analyzable world. There's a batch of analyzable issues that I'm definite Democrats are going to privation to address. But erstwhile it comes to these issues connected MAHA, I deliberation determination is immense accidental successful the adjacent twelvemonth to get immoderate large things done. Because I tin accidental with certainty that Bobby Kennedy, Stephen Miller, and President Trump privation to get large things done connected these issues.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, Secretary Kennedy has endorsed Dr. Heidi Overton to beryllium the adjacent FDA commissioner. He said she's exceptionally dedicated, meticulous attraction to detail, strategical enactment to each argumentation she touches. You accused her of penning a argumentation to unbend standards connected fruit-flavored vapes.
CALLEY MEANS: I'm not going to talk for Secretary Kennedy. Heidi Overton was the biggest artifact to MAHA policies I encountered successful the government. On- connected steadfast food, connected intelligence wellness treatments similar psychedelics, she was a chromatic wall, and she truly mindlessly, successful my opinion, did immoderate Susie told her to do. Marty Makary was her mentor, and she, successful a meeting, told Marty and I that she couldn't assistance Marty if helium didn't o.k. a cause that helium thought scientifically should not beryllium approved, an mRNA flu vaccine. And it's conscionable a factual connection that aft Marty left, partially owed to the vaping issue, she drove the instauration of the relaxed vaping strategy.
(NOTE: Former FDA Commissioner Dr. Marty Makary told CBS News, "Big baccy exploited their connections to medication and HHS officials to enactment repeated unit connected maine to o.k. fruit-flavored vapes that entreaty to children—I wouldn't bash it. The Kratom/7-OH lobby ran the aforesaid playbook to undermine my efforts to marque this caller 'gas presumption heroin' illegal. As FDA commissioner, I ever rejected governmental corruption conscionable arsenic voters crossed the governmental spectrum did past week.")
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, successful this caller authorities with the caller main of staff, bash you deliberation her information is going to beryllium pulled? I mean, she's already testified to Congress. She's inactive got to look a vote.
CALLEY MEANS: My sentiment is Heidi Overton should not beryllium FDA- she does not person the quality oregon integrity to beryllium FDA secretary- oregon FDA commissioner.
(NOTE: A spokesperson for Dr. Heidi Overton responded to Means' disapproval of her qualifications and told CBS quality that "two erstwhile FDA commissioners deliberation otherwise").
MARGARET BRENNAN: On the time you resigned, nutrient stocks rallied. General Mills, Kraft, they went up. You person been moving to make a national explanation of ultra-processed food. Why hasn't that explanation happened?
CALLEY MEANS:This is simply a no-brainer. 70% of a child's fare is ultra-processed food, and the explanation is not complicated. There was relentless lobbying against this due to the fact that the manufacture and they said this successful meetings with maine and different people, they conscionable don't privation a explanation due to the fact that they don't privation Americans to person much transparency into what they're eating due to the fact that there's a displacement distant from ultra-processed nutrient close now. This was a argumentation that folks and I worked relentlessly connected with hundreds of meetings, stakeholders. I met with each nutrient manufacture lobbyist. And we had the American Heart Association, American Medical Association, American Academy of Pediatrics, groups that are suing the medication connected different issues supportive of this policy. We went done an interagency argumentation process wherever the USDA signed disconnected and different parts of the White House. And past days earlier the announcement, aft a barrage of calls to Susie's office, which the lobbyists from Coca-Cola and Mondelez threatened maine that they would do--
MARGARET BRENNAN: They said to you, what? I'll telephone the main of staff?
CALLEY MEANS: When they- erstwhile they fundamentally successful meetings admit that they don't truly person contributions to the explanation but conscionable don't privation it done and I said this is simply a mandate and a committedness from the medication to get done. They said okay, good we're going to telephone Susie's bureau and different people. I was precise disturbed by that due to the fact that they spoke astir that arsenic if these radical successful the authorities were extensions of their industry. They did that, and it was pulled by Susie's office.
MARGARET BRENNAN: One of the different cardinal issues for MAHA is eliminating the usage of glyphosate. That's that herbicide we talked about, linked to cancer. It's commercially disposable arsenic Roundup, it was produced by Bayer, which is formerly known arsenic Monsanto. Why did the Trump medication enactment the corp and its position, a winning 1 earlier the Supreme Court, to support them from further lawsuits? That does not dependable similar a MAHA principle.
CALLEY MEANS: No, it's not. And Heidi Overton--
MARGARET BRENNAN: But it's a MAGA principle?
CALLEY MEANS: No, it's not. Heidi Overton led that process, moving with the DOJ to constitute a little to the Supreme Court, urging them to instrumentality a lawsuit to springiness this cancer-causing chemical, proven by galore tribunal cases that person been settled--
MARGARET BRENNAN: The EPA is inactive reviewing it.
CALLEY MEANS: Well, the press- [inaud] EPA reappraisal was thrown retired due to the fact that Bayer bribed radical and shade wrote research.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Bribed who?
CALLEY MEANS: This is documented. The- glyphosate hasn't been reviewed successful 30 years, and was up for reappraisal recently, a mates years ago, and that reappraisal was thrown retired due to the fact that Bayer shade wrote probe and bribed EPA officials.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is that happening now?
CALLEY MEANS: There's immense problems astatine the EPA, which President Trump ran connected fixing, and I anticipation we can. On the contented of the immunity, that happened due to the fact that Heidi Overton, moving with Susie's team, worked with the DOJ to accidental from the medication that they should instrumentality that lawsuit without the consultation of Secretary Kennedy and without consulting President Trump.
(NOTE: A Senior White House authoritative told CBS News that the solicitor wide wrote the little for the Supreme Court astatine the petition of the court. The authoritative besides said that Dr. Overton did measurement successful connected the little successful the last stages but conscionable made changes to "tone." The Trump medication argued successful tribunal filings that national standards supersede state-level liability claims, which was the aforesaid presumption taken by glyphosate-maker Monsanto, present known arsenic Bayer).
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you're talking astir a batch of the unit that the nationalist whitethorn not know, but they bash cognize that there's an EPA administration. Like there's Lee Zeldin, there's Brooke Rollins astatine the USDA, there's an HHS secretary. Are they not progressive successful immoderate of the details here?
CALLEY MEANS: The authorities is 2 cardinal people. President Trump is the archetypal president successful American past to really place the occupation that we are astatine the verge of organization illness with the breakdown and corruption of our institutions, and I deliberation that's a tremendous contribution. And present you person starring Democrats saying the nonstop aforesaid thing. So I deliberation we bash person an accidental to hole this. Lee and Brooke speech to Bobby regularly, are alert of the occupation and are trying to hole it. It is intolerable to picture to you however ample and breached these institutions are, and determination are radical successful the government- and I volition say, Lee and Brooke person been moving truly hard with Bobby to effort to hole this. It is daunting. That is not an excuse for President Trump, but- but it's conscionable true. This is the civilizational, I think, situation that we person arsenic Americans, and that we request to recognize that the contented and American competitiveness does not hinge connected whether President Trump is successful oregon out, oregon whether Stephen Miller is successful oregon out. It hinges connected fixing this organization corruption of our systems that our Founders would beryllium perfectly horrified by.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So you deliberation it's close for legislature Democrats to clasp hearings, contented subpoenas, telephone immoderate of these folks forward?
CALLEY MEANS:I deliberation it would beryllium a monolithic mistake and portion of a psyop for them to enactment similar the lone contented is getting President Trump retired of bureau due to the fact that that's a prevarication and that's conscionable much of the same.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What astir Secretary Kennedy?
CALLEY MEANS: The Congress has not passed- that it would be- it would beryllium brainsick for them to spell aft Secretary Kennedy. He's the astir fashionable nationalist authoritative successful America, and they're virtually campaigning connected the nonstop aforesaid things helium campaigned on. Let maine conscionable decorativeness the, fto maine conscionable decorativeness the point. It is- Americans request to recognize if the Democratic investigations are chiefly based successful the thesis that the- the happening that volition prevention America is whether President Trump is successful oregon retired of office, that is simply a lie, and we cognize that's a lie. What I americium describing with these people, and what I'm describing this organization corruption is happening for decades, and it is simply a bipartisan issue. Right now, lobbying firms, you know, tally by Senator Schumer's erstwhile staffers, are filling up their coffers. This is simply a game. This is simply a game, and you person an absorbing dynamic wherever President Trump, during the campaign, and the Democrats that are moving without firm money, galore connected the acold left, are really saying the aforesaid thing, which is that the astir existential happening we request to code is organization corruption. We would alteration the satellite if the Democrats spent immoderate clip really moving with Bobby Kennedy to ask, "why is the FDA utilizing governmental interference to marque cause decisions?" As Marty Makary can, you know, testify, it's a governmental process. Americans should not beryllium arrogant of however we're making regulatory decisions. Why does- wherefore hasn't the EPA reviewed glyphosate successful 30 years? Like the- like, similar like tin we walk a small spot of time? I don't deliberation I'm- I'm skeptical Congress is going to bash it due to the fact that they want, the Democrats and Republicans, they privation to beryllium debating near versus right, which is, which is simply a joke. They don't privation to beryllium talking astir the cardinal rot due to the fact that that implicates them.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you person identified present immoderate of the Democrats you deliberation you could perchance enactment with. Was it a strategical mistake for MAHA to align itself with Donald Trump and MAGA solely? I mean the MAHA PAC didn't endorse a azygous Democrat. It's each Republicans.
CALLEY MEANS: This is an imminently–
MARGARET BRENNAN: So present it's partisan.
CALLEY MEANS: This is an imminently bipartisan issue, and has been noted galore times. What Bobby Kennedy is saying is often what the near has been saying. That's a bully thing. I americium precise comfy with the decision, you know, that Bobby Kennedy made to bring this to the close with President Trump. And I deliberation really historically it's a large happening that the close is present animated connected these issues, arsenic the near is, too. And you cognize erstwhile you inject an contented into politics, it becomes toxic. You know, you hold with astir of these issues, but the quality fundamentally conscionable covers you cognize the borderline cases, the toxic things, the questions. But determination is simply a immense accidental that the close is animated connected the aforesaid issues the near is animated. And I volition accidental we're astatine a constituent close present wherever ultra-processed nutrient is being declining. Americans are really practicing steadfast habits by galore statistics. Like we're really waking up to this culturally. And I deliberation the information that Bobby Kennedy and President Trump connected the close substantiated this has truly moved that civilization forward, and I deliberation has been positive. Whether you're left, right, oregon center, I deliberation you're reasoning much astir these issues, and I deliberation President Trump and Bobby Kennedy merit recognition for that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But to this point, conscionable study card-wise, the CBS exit polls showed 58% of those polled successful these midterm races said the Trump medication policies person made the wellness and well-being of radical successful the U.S. worse, 58%. It besides showed 47% of those who voted said Trump policies person made entree to vaccines for children worse. Has it been a mistake to absorption truthful overmuch connected vaccines and not publically connected the nutrient issues and the things that you accidental are bipartisan?
CALLEY MEANS: Well, Bobby Kennedy focuses connected the uniting bipartisan issues, truthful it's not close that he's conscionable determination talking about-
MARGARET BRENNAN: The enforcement orders person been about
CALLEY MEANS: Hold on, clasp on--
MARGARET BRENNAN: --encouraging glyphosate and encouraging opting retired of vaccines.
(CROSSTALK)
CALLEY MEANS: Let me, fto maine finish. The media absorption a batch of vaccines. Just factually, that Bobby Kennedy 90% of his clip is connected issues that each American would beryllium precise arrogant of. I'll accidental connected vaccines, if we privation to speech astir that, right? I mentioned connected the Joe Rogan podcast. Again, the FDA sent a survey backmost connected the Moderna mRNA vaccine, showing that determination were deaths successful the survey group, and showing that it had a paltry implicit benefit, and that determination were terrible broadside effects, and they asked for different survey to begin.
(NOTE: Calley Means confirmed to CBS aft the interrogation that helium was speaking astir the Moderna mRNA flu vaccine, not the COVID vaccine).
(CROSS TALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: This is an approved vaccine by the FDA.
CALLEY MEANS: Yeah, no, no, no, no. It wasn't approved. They sent it backmost due to the fact that the information didn't. What happened was Blackstone, who invested successful this cause too, pounded calls. You had the lobbyists we each cognize pounding calls, and Heidi Overton was directed to scope into the FDA aft Marty near and reverse that decision. And the caput of vaccines astatine the FDA, Kaslow, David Kaslow, is the erstwhile caput of vaccines for Merck. He wears an N95 disguise and has the- "vaccinate" connected his licence plate. Very affluent from Merck, and helium enactment unneurotic an advisory committee of his friends, and they approved a vaccine that the FDA thought was not harmless and effective. Now that's being called harmless and effective. I deliberation Democrats, left, right, oregon center, would astir apt person questions. If Congress wants to analyse something, tin we analyse governmental interference successful our system? I'll archer you, you know, arsenic a parent, and arsenic idiosyncratic who's been attacked by radical successful the MAHA assemblage due to the fact that vaccines are not my main issue, I americium deeply, profoundly acrophobic with the corruption and governmental interference successful cause approvals, including vaccines. And I deliberation that's a- I deliberation that's a worthwhile happening to discuss. And I think, frankly, an country wherever the Democrats should privation to cognize what's going connected there.
(NOTE: The FDA did not respond to Face the Nation's petition for comment.
However, a U.S. wellness authoritative told CBS quality that immoderate deaths that hap during the survey of a vaccine oregon cause would beryllium successful the nationalist grounds linked to the support papers reported to the FDA. The contented of decease and information signals did travel up, and to reason determination is simply a cover-up is false. In summation to the support document, the contented was discussed publically successful the advisory committee and debated openly successful June. There was nary peculiar advisory committee enactment unneurotic astatine the FDA to o.k. the vaccine. The FDA does not person grounds of collusion oregon conspiracy).
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we saw a grounds fig of doctors and scientists tally and triumph seats, and they're going to beryllium successful the Democratic majority. Pediatrician Annie Andrews, doc from South Carolina, she says RFK and impeaching him is 1 of her run promises. She said he's been her archnemesis for decades, determination are thousands of pediatricians crossed the state who would accidental the aforesaid thing. So isn't this an illustration of the vaccine contented getting successful the mode of each these different wellness initiatives?
CALLEY MEANS: As I said, I deliberation there's precise tenable questions to inquire astir the corruption of the FDA, and I deliberation it would beryllium a mistake to--
MARGARET BRENNAN: --But RFK is the HHS secretary--
CALLEY MEANS: --Excuse me- tin I? I deliberation it would beryllium a mistake to wholly contradict what's intelligibly a increasing situation of spot among galore Americans with the aesculapian proposal that we're getting from the aesculapian strategy aft COVID. I bash deliberation determination is simply a monolithic accidental to get 90% issues done. I judge successful D.C. the hardest issues to get done are really the astir fashionable issues that truly spell aft structural betterment and truly spell aft peculiar interests. I cannot find galore examples of Congress passing a large measure successful the past 20 years that has gone against peculiar interests. So if they're saying that they privation to absorption connected existent wellness reform, existent betterment that I deliberation astir by explanation has to instrumentality connected immoderate peculiar interest. Bobby Kennedy's there, and if they privation to person him successful and inquire questions astir however he's gone astir vaccines, I'm definite he'd beryllium blessed to person that speech too.
(NOTE: We asked White House Chief of Staff Stephen Miller for further context, arsenic of broadcast air, helium had not responded).
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