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On this "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan" broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- Venezuelan absorption person María Corina Machado
- Rep. Michael McCaul, Republican of Texas
- Trump economical advisor Gary Cohn
- Oklahoma City Mayor David Holt; Mesa, Arizona Mayor Mark Freeman; Kansas City, Missouri, Mayor Quinton Lucas; and Miami Mayor Eileen Higgins
Click here to browse afloat transcripts from 2026 of "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan."
MARGARET BRENNAN: I'm Margaret Brennan successful Washington.
And this week connected Face the Nation: Anger astatine ICE persists crossed the country, positive our interrogation with Venezuelan absorption person and Nobel Peace Prize victor Maria Corina Machado.
After a whirlwind of meetings successful Washington, Machado is projecting optimism astir her country's future, adjacent arsenic her ain aboriginal remains murky, with the enactment she defeated successful a nationwide predetermination inactive holding powerfulness with the enactment of President Trump.
(Begin VT)
DONALD TRUMP (President of the United States): I deliberation she's a precise good person, but I deliberation I person to say, astatine the aforesaid time, the existent enactment is doing a precise bully job.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We volition speech to her exclusively.
Meanwhile, the statement implicit ICE migration enforcement drives much protests crossed the country…
(Begin VT)
(CHANTING)
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: … and sparks a combat successful Congress implicit backing for the Department of Homeland Security. We volition speech to Republican Congressman Michael McCaul.
Plus, a bipartisan speech with 4 of America's mayors connected however they're striking a equilibrium betwixt section priorities and national authority.
Finally, President Trump's apical economical advisor successful his archetypal term, Gary Cohn, volition articulation us. We volition inquire astir the president's caller prime to pb the Federal Reserve.
It's each conscionable up connected Face the Nation.
Good morning, and invited to Face the Nation.
Washington is waking up to different authorities shutdown, this clip a partial 1 and hopefully short, arsenic the House is expected to commencement statement time connected a backing bundle and a short-term hold of Homeland Security funding.
We volition get to each of that successful conscionable a moment, but we privation to statesman with the Trump administration's actions present successful the Western Hemisphere. It was conscionable 4 weeks agone that the U.S. subject captured Venezuelan person Nicolas Maduro. Since then, the U.S. has continued striking alleged cause boats and seizing lipid tankers, portion of Trump's program to coerce what remains of Maduro's socialist authorities to marque changes.
Yesterday, U.S. Ambassador Laura Dogu arrived successful Caracas to oversee U.S. efforts. But calls to merchandise governmental prisoners and extremity repression persist, and determination is simply a mounting propulsion for a modulation to elected enactment successful Venezuela.
Nobel Peace Prize victor Maria Corina Machado is successful Washington gathering with lawmakers and Trump officials to impulse enactment for different nationwide election. Her enactment won the past election, but was blocked by Maduro from taking office.
We spoke with Machado and began by asking her whether she thinks the unit is disconnected the existent authorities aft President Trump said helium had nary plans for further subject enactment wrong the country.
(Begin VT)
MARIA CORINA MACHADO (Venezuela Opposition Leader): I bash not deliberation that the unit is being taken away. Actually, everything Delcy Rodriguez is presently doing is due to the fact that she's complying with instructions she's getting from the United States, and important steps are being taken.
So, I deliberation that the connection has been delivered, and, truthful far, we're seeing the results successful the actions taken by the authorities and besides successful the temper and vigor that is increasing wrong the Venezuelan population.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you oregon is anyone successful your question successful interaction with Delcy Rodriguez, who's the acting president of Venezuela now?
MARIA CORINA MACHADO: No, not directly.
MARGARET BRENNAN: No. Why not?
MARIA CORINA MACHADO: Well, we had offered, since we won the predetermination by a landslide, that we were consenting to – to hold successful the presumption of a negotiated transition. They refused.
On the contrary, they decided to unleash the – the – the astir cruel, brutal repression wave. There are – arsenic you know, determination person been thousands of governmental prisoners, and they had not demonstrated immoderate willingness to – to halt this cruelty, until January 3 arrived and – and happened erstwhile it happened.
So it sent a wide connection to them, and they're starting to recognize that things person changed for good. So, eventually, they mightiness recognize oregon – and adjacent precise soon, that it is successful their champion involvement to – to judge that the modulation is unstoppable.
MARGARET BRENNAN: A modulation that you anticipation involves a antiauthoritarian predetermination astatine immoderate point.
Did Secretary Rubio springiness you immoderate benignant of timeline for the American plans?
MARIA CORINA MACHADO: What I bash person precise wide is that the extremity effect is the same, what we want, what the Venezuelan radical person voted and struggled and combat for, with immense outgo and sacrifice, and what the United States authorities and President Trump besides desires.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But for the radical successful Venezuela inactive surviving nether that regime, what has really changed for them? And bash they person the patience to hold for what you're talking about, which is fundamentally conscionable hoping that the Rodriguez authorities does what Donald Trump tells them to do?
MARIA CORINA MACHADO: Well, it's much than hoping.
We're seeing the results, the actions. Are we determination yet? Not. And – and I deliberation it's a bully point, what you mentioned, patience. How overmuch patience tin the Venezuelan radical have?
Because, I mean, determination were implicit 1,000 governmental prisoners connected January the 1st. Still, determination are implicit 700. Not 1 subject prisoner, governmental captive has been liberated.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, President Trump has talked a batch astir Venezuela's lipid and its earthy resources. Do you enactment the instrumentality that was conscionable passed that allows the Venezuelan authorities to privatize the lipid industry?
MARIA CORINA MACHADO: Well, archetypal of all, I bash not admit the National Assembly arsenic a morganatic power.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
MARIA CORINA MACHADO: It has not been recognized by the Venezuelan people, not adjacent by the American, U.S. – by the U.S. government.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Not legally. But, effectively, they…
MARIA CORINA MACHADO: It – truthful – truthful – yes, but immoderate comes from that National Assembly has nary legality, truthful – due to the fact that this is an illegitimate power.
So, certainly, these alleged reforms present affirmative signs successful presumption of what we, the Venezuelan people, privation successful the future. We don't privation socialism. We don't privation the authorities owning each single, you know, installation oregon accumulation center.
We privation backstage property, but that requires regularisation of law, semipermanent guarantees for overseas investment, for section investment. But 1 happening that is the astir important of all, successful my opinion, you request to person people, talent, specialized, professional, consenting to enactment and make these enterprises.
What happened with the Venezuelan specialized talent? It was forced to fly the country, astir a 3rd of our population. And these are radical that are moving each astir the number – the world.
MARGARET BRENNAN: President Trump conscionable said connected camera that United States is going to commencement peeling backmost immoderate of these sanctions truthful that Americans tin question backmost to Venezuela. He's lifted the aerial restrictions.
MARIA CORINA MACHADO: Well, I think…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is it harmless to go?
MARIA CORINA MACHADO: I deliberation it is important to instrumentality steps.
I deliberation these are signals directed to respective actors, archetypal and foremost to the regime, saying, this is going to determination forward. There is nary mode back. And – and – and the authorities knows that nary American national oregon Venezuelan national is going to spell backmost to a state that's inactive nether the powerfulness of Maduro authorities and the cartel.
That's not going to happen. But – but these kinds of actions, I think, springiness the correct…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
MARIA CORINA MACHADO: … signals, successful presumption that this is going to determination ahead. And I bash spot the president successful what helium has said regarding however overmuch helium cares astir the Venezuelan people. That's thing that I deliberation it was rather important successful our conversation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: If you instrumentality to Venezuela now, would you beryllium imprisoned? And has the American authorities said that they volition support you, they volition warrant your safety?
MARIA CORINA MACHADO: Well, you know, things are changing precise accelerated successful Venezuela.
If they had captured maine earlier I left, I astir apt would person been disappeared, oregon – oregon worse. Right now, I don't deliberation they would situation to termination maine due to the fact that of the United States' beingness and unit and actions.
I don't cognize however overmuch anticipation of moving I would person wrong Venezuela. Certainly, they would beryllium precise afraid, due to the fact that the – the authorities knows the connection, the intimate transportation we have, you know, the Venezuelan radical and – and the enactment that won the election, the morganatic government.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you won that election, on with…
MARIA CORINA MACHADO: Edmundo.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … Edmundo Gonzalez astatine the apical of that ticket. Even the Trump medication recognized it. Secretary Rubio testified that to Congress.
But past the president of the United States stood up determination and said to the nationalist that, adjacent though you had won that election, you didn't person the nationalist support. And I wonderment if you tin recognize wherefore they made that calculation.
MARIA CORINA MACHADO: I volition ore successful what helium told maine successful a backstage conversation, looking each different successful the eyes.
And I – and I genuinely judge helium understands the quality of this regime. They each cognize that Delcy Rodriguez is simply a communist that nary 1 tin trust. Not even, you know, the radical surrounding her close present does. I mean these are individuals that person beardown ties with Russia, Iran, China, Cuba.
I mean, she is doing what she's doing due to the fact that United States is putting capable unit for them to recognize that she has nary different option. If that – if that unit were taken away, she would crook astir and spell backmost to wherever loyal – her loyalty is, with these regimes are the enemies of America.
So nary 1 is naive here. I deliberation she's doing portion of the soiled occupation of dismantling her ain authorities and entourage, but that's a – there's a bounds to it for what you said before,. You know, radical person to beryllium taken relationship connected – of. They person to beryllium involved.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What relation would you privation successful a aboriginal Venezuelan government? Because adjacent President Trump says you whitethorn person a relation successful the future. Would you tally for president?
MARIA CORINA MACHADO: I volition beryllium president erstwhile the clip comes. But it doesn't matter. That should beryllium decided successful elections by the Venezuelan people.
I wasn't allowed to tally successful the past election, arsenic we mentioned before, due to the fact that Maduro was acrophobic to moving against me. And helium thought Edmundo was not a threat, due to the fact that cipher knew who helium was. And successful little than 3 months, we managed to enactment the full state supporting him, due to the fact that this is – this is simply a substance of freedom.
I mean, this is simply a spiritual fight, an existential combat for Venezuela. Unlike different diasporas, and I privation to accent this, our radical astir the world, present successful the United States, privation to spell back, spell backmost and unrecorded successful a state wherever they're safe, but, astir of all, wherever determination is simply a aboriginal successful state and democracy.
So if we privation those hundreds of thousands and millions of Venezuelans to spell back, we request to person a unafraid and precise timeline done which this modulation volition advance.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we don't cognize erstwhile yet…
MARIA CORINA MACHADO: Not yet.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … from the Trump administration.
(CROSSTALK)
MARIA CORINA MACHADO: Not yet.
But I'm definite determination is – and the caput of authorities and galore different members of the government, by instructions of the president, a wide willingness to determination arsenic accelerated arsenic possible, within, you know, power and bid and knowing the complexity of specified a transgression structure, but knowing that the dependable of the radical is what brings legitimacy to this process.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Before I fto you go, you know, the past clip we spoke, you had made this daring covert flight by land, oversea and aerial from Venezuela to spell and person that Nobel Peace Prize successful Oslo.
You've kept those details private, you said, for information reasons. But you did accidental you broke your back. You talked astir being mislaid astatine sea, that you feared that you mightiness suffer your beingness astatine 1 point.
After each of that, wherefore did you springiness your Nobel Peace Prize to President Trump, aft you'd already dedicated it to him?
MARIA CORINA MACHADO: Look, I deliberation this is simply a substance of justice, and it's a substance of what's successful the superior involvement of our country.
We, the Venezuelan people, are genuinely grateful for what helium has done, and we're assured successful what helium volition bash successful the – successful the days, weeks and months to come.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You judge helium supports you?
MARIA CORINA MACHADO: I do, due to the fact that it is – has – it has to bash archetypal and foremost with you, the American people, and however dismantling this transgression operation not lone saves millions of Venezuelan lives. It besides saves lives successful the Americas.
And erstwhile Venezuela is free, past the Cuban authorities volition follow. The Nicaraguan authorities volition follow, adjacent the Iranian authorities that has turned Venezuela into its harmless haven and outer lone 3 hours distant from Florida.
I mean, this has immense effect for the Western Hemisphere, for United States. So I deliberation this is simply a win-win concern for investment, for concern opportunity, for information reasons, and surely for migration tensions and crisis.
So, Venezuela volition beryllium free, and I cognize I volition big you soon successful a fantastic state that is precise grateful to yours.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Maria Corina Machado, convey you precise overmuch for your clip today.
We'll beryllium close back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We're joined present by Texas Republican Congressman Michael McCaul.
Good to person you here.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL (R-Texas): Thanks for having me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, we're successful this partial authorities shutdown presently, but Speaker Johnson said connected different web this greeting helium expects it whitethorn extremity by Tuesday.
Some of your Republican colleagues, though, person said that they person conditions for getting connected board. Republicans person a one-seat bulk astatine this point. Is helium – is helium overconfident? He has your vote?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: Well, helium has my vote.
I mean, we voted for this past time. The Democrats, astir of them voted for this. For the Democrats to crook astir and ballot against it connected Tuesday, conscionable to unopen down the national government, makes nary consciousness to maine astatine all.
I deliberation the talker – the instrumentality is getting it done the Rules Committee. And I judge that the talker would not bash that if helium didn't person the votes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, you cognize wherefore we're successful this concern and wherefore those Democrats are present objecting.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: Right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Because of what happened a week ago…
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: Right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … retired successful Minneapolis, erstwhile Alex Pretti, this ICU nurse, was changeable dormant by Border Patrol.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: But the DHS information is taken retired of this. The D.H. information is taken retired of that appropriations.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. It's conscionable present a two-week continuing resolution.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: To person reforms to DHS.
MARGARET BRENNAN: To person reforms.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So let's speech astir that, due to the fact that the Trump medication has changed personnel. They enactment Tom Homan present retired successful Minneapolis, the borderline czar. They took retired of that presumption Greg Bovino, who had been moving Border Patrol.
The Justice Department has besides said it's opened a civilian rights probe into wherefore national agents changeable Pretti. Secretary Noem present says the FBI is taking implicit the probe into what happened. Are your concerns astir what happened successful Minneapolis satisfied?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: I person called for a afloat investigation. DOJ has opened that investigation.
Civil Rights Division would person jurisdiction implicit this. Look, I mean, Bovino went successful determination with these roving patrols. He escalated the situation. He escalated the hostility betwixt the nationalist and instrumentality enforcement. He enactment his agents successful a presumption they should ne'er person been enactment in. They person nary grooming for assemblage control.
Their occupation is to spell successful and region transgression aliens, convulsive felons from the United States, and get them retired of here. And so, you know, I – Tom Homan is simply a consummate professional. He's been doing this for a agelong time. I person known him for a agelong time. He's going to spell backmost to the halfway ngo of ICE. And that's targeted instrumentality enforcement operations, not roving the streets, causing chaos.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But we haven't heard him accidental oregon the medication accidental that they're really going to alteration tactics to bash what you conscionable said.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: Well, I believe, successful his property conference, helium did speech astir de-escalation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: He talked astir going backmost to targeted, you know, instrumentality enforcement operations.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Does that mean ending warrantless arrests? Is that however you recognize it?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: Administrative warrants person been astir for a agelong time…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: … to – signed by an migration judge, bid of removal, to spell in, pat astir prisoners nether ICE detainers. That volition continue.
The thought of an administrative bid being – warrant being utilized to interruption into a home, that has not been the signifier of ICE. And I don't deliberation Mr. Homan is going to – going to proceed that.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we heard really – you're right. Warrantless location entries are unconstitutional. Fourth Amendment protects each people, careless of citizenship, from unreasonable hunt and seizures.
But – and we've seen the documentation from the Trump medication – their argumentation does let for these alleged collateral arrests, wherever ICE officers transportation retired warrantless arrests of unauthorized immigrants who are not the targets, but radical that who are encountered during an operation, and they mightiness beryllium trying to permission the scene.
Should the premise determination beryllium changed? Is that excessively broad?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: Look, the people is simply a target. The target's the convulsive offender. You know, determination – determination are plentifulness of those to walk each our clip and resources on.
When they bash apprehension the target, if determination are amerciable aliens with the target, they are caught successful the net, and due to the fact that they're successful the state illegally, they are removed. And I don't deliberation that signifier volition change. But the roving patrols…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, it did alteration them, due to the fact that anterior administrations interpreted formation hazard arsenic not perchance showing up for a tribunal appointment. The Trump medication interpreted it arsenic the feline mightiness permission the scene. And they justified immoderate of these warrantless arrests and encounters nether that.
Is that excessively broad? Because that's portion of this roving radical that you're talking about, right?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: Well, correct.
And owed process applies to each persons nether the Constitution. It would use to them arsenic well. If they're caught successful the net, though, they person to beryllium dealt with. Look, this is going successful beforehand of courts close now. And…
MARGARET BRENNAN: And Democrats privation to reason astir this. They privation changes.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: And – yes. And the courts are throwing retired a batch of these cases. Actually, you person – and you're having violations with U.S. citizens being arrested unlawfully.
So the American radical enactment the deportation of transgression aliens, convulsive offenders. What they don't enactment is excessive usage of force. And I judge Bovino crossed the line. I deliberation the president was close successful telling him to get retired of there. I would advise…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Should helium inactive person a job?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: Well, he's going backmost to his anterior station.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: But I would counsel the caput and the president to impact Tom Homan. And helium should person been determination from time one…
MARGARET BRENNAN: Why wasn't he?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: … and to utilize his expertise and his talent.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Why was helium chopped retired by Secretary Noem?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: I don't cognize each the interior workings wrong DHS connected that. I tin archer you, though, helium is the consummate nonrecreational erstwhile it comes to ICE removal operations.
MARGARET BRENNAN: A national justice successful Texas has ordered that this 5-year- aged boy, Liam Ramos, beryllium released, on with his father, from ICE custody. He had been detained by national agents retired successful Minneapolis. His representation went viral.
The justice who ordered the merchandise specifically referenced interest astir traumatizing children. He is not the lone kid being detained nether existent policies. And with this peculiar case, the medication claimed thing that was not backed up successful court, right?
They claimed the begetter was trying to fly and that helium was present illegally. He was present nether a argumentation honored by the past administration. They utilized an app connected a telephone to assertion asylum. That was a ineligible process. So present they're retired of this detention facility.
But – but doesn't that rise to you interest that determination are children who are getting caught successful the crosshairs, that determination does request to be, possibly from Congress, immoderate guardrails present being enactment connected Homeland Security and what they're doing?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: I deliberation that is portion of the betterment process we'll beryllium looking at. I deliberation determination are…
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you person to unit it, oregon bash you spot DHS to bash it?
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: I – well, we tin – we tin – we tin walk the laws.
I deliberation the occupation is, situations similar these springiness a achromatic oculus to really instrumentality enforcement officers who are conscionable trying to bash their jobs. And, look, the mission, I think, is to get convulsive felons retired of the country. Most radical enactment that.
(CROSSTALK)
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: It's the president – the fig 1 contented the president won the predetermination on.
What I interest astir is turning a winning contented into a liability. I inactive judge the American radical privation america to region dangerous, convulsive criminals from the streets, but they don't privation to spot these images of children and radical being dragged retired of their cars and U.S. citizens.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: Those excessive usage of forces cases request to stop. And I deliberation Tom Homan volition de-escalate the situation, arsenic I person been calling for, for weeks.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Congressman McCaul, convey you for your clip today.
REPRESENTATIVE MICHAEL MCCAUL: Thanks for having me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll beryllium close backmost with a batch much Face the Nation.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: The Justice Department connected Friday released much than 3 cardinal further pages related to the probe into convicted enactment offender Jeffrey Epstein, claiming it has present released each the files required by Congress successful a instrumentality signed by President Trump successful November.
But the authors of that law, Democrats and 1 Republican connected the House Judiciary Committee, accidental the medication has not complied and has lone released fractional of the estimated pages, including 200,000 that were redacted oregon withheld, and, connected Saturday, submitted a ceremonial enquiry to reappraisal each of the files.
We volition beryllium close back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We volition beryllium close backmost with erstwhile Trump economical advisor Gary Cohn.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome backmost to "FACE THE NATION."
For an update present connected the system we're joined by Gary Cohn, who was the apical economical advisor to President Trump touring his archetypal word successful office. He is present the vice president of IBM.
Good to person you backmost here.
GARY COHN (IBM Vice Chair): Thanks for having me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, the president has this editorial successful "The Wall Street Journal" arguing each the economical occurrence that we are seeing close present is owed to his tariff policies. The legality of that, of immoderate of those tariffs are being debated close present earlier the Supreme Court. How factual bash you measure his statement to be?
GARY COHN: Well, I deliberation we request to instrumentality a measurement back. The system is rather beardown close present connected top-line growth. So, if you look astatine GDP, gross home product, which is the wide output of the U.S. economy, we're trending astir 5 percent close now, which is simply a precise precocious maturation complaint successful the United States, overmuch higher than the baseline we've had for the past decade.
So, if you look astatine that fig alone, and that's a bully fig to look at, things are going well. The ostentation complaint has travel down to the precocious 2 percents. It's inactive higher than we'd similar it. And the unemployment complaint is ticking up, but it's inactive successful a tenable spot astir four, 4.5 percent. So, overall, the system is rather beardown close now.
That said, we've got an absorbing system close now. We've got this monolithic wealthiness effect astatine the apical extremity and we've got hard-working Americans who are having a precise hard clip paying their bills and they're suffering successful this economy. And I deliberation the White House has acknowledged that they're suffering. And I deliberation portion of the crushed the president wrote the op-ed was to effort and get retired successful beforehand of radical who are having a hard clip paying their bills and gathering their expenses. The White House is going connected the offensive. The president is going to walk clip retired connected the roadworthy talking astir affordability. Affordability is going to beryllium the issue.
MARGARET BRENNAN: He says it's a hope.
GARY COHN: Well, I deliberation affordability volition beryllium the contented betwixt present and the midterm elections.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. And we cognize the main of unit has said she wants the president retired determination talking astir the economy.
But you conscionable mentioned what consumers are feeling. The White House says radical volition conscionable consciousness amended aft taxation time.
GARY COHN: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You wrote that archetypal taxation instrumentality that was past conscionable renewed and extended by Congress.
GARY COHN: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you are seeing companies similar Amazon denote it's cutting 16,000 firm jobs, Mastercard cutting 4 percent of its 35,000-person workforce, UPS, 30,000 jobs gone, Dow, 4,500, Home Depot, 800. If everything's trending successful a affirmative direction, what is going connected there?
GARY COHN: So, we did spot implicit 60,000 further layoffs travel retired of companies past week during the net season. It's typically erstwhile companies speech astir managing expenses. Companies contiguous person 2 basal things going on. Number one, companies hoarded labour during and aft Covid. When we are – erstwhile we were moving from location and radical were remote, productivity went down and companies were disquieted astir getting the workloads done. So, astir companies ended up hiring further radical oregon not letting anyone go. So, workforces ballooned.
And I deliberation we're present successful the portion of the rhythm wherever firm America is precise comfy astir replacing people, they're precise comfy astir hiring people. So, they're downsizing their caput number from hoarding to benignant of a much naturalized level. And I deliberation a batch of those numbers that we saw this week being announced were companies right-sizing themselves.
In summation to that, we person seen input costs for companies spell up rather dramatically. Whether it beryllium labour costs, commodity costs oregon tariffs. As we agree, idiosyncratic has to wage the tariffs. So, arsenic companies are trying to equilibrium their equation –
MARGARET BRENNAN: The president says there's nary outgo to it that's going to wounded a company. They're going to –
GARY COHN: But we – helium besides says that there's $200 cardinal positive sitting successful an relationship of wealth they've collected. So, the wealth is being paid by someone. So, the corporations are paying the money. They're trying to fig retired however to woody with input costs going up, tariffs going off, outgo of labour going up and not truly having the quality to rise prices to the user due to the fact that we've seen however pugnacious it is for a batch of Americans to spend things today.
So, companies are walking that good enactment betwixt absorbing input outgo and not being capable to rise prices.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
So, the White House, arsenic I said, they are alert they person a problem, adjacent if they don't privation to explicitly accidental they person a occupation politically due to the fact that of that little extremity consumer. But erstwhile you look, 1 of the ideas being floated by the president is simply a one-year headdress connected recognition paper rates astatine 10 percent and someway getting Congress to compel that. He signed an enforcement bid to bounds organization investors to buying single-family homes. And past he's floated this thought of $2,000 checks, which whitethorn oregon whitethorn not necessitate Congress.
GARY COHN: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What bash you deliberation astir the user focused parts of the plan? Are they viable?
GARY COHN: Well, look, I deliberation it's admirable that they're knowing that radical are cash-strapped today. They're stuck with not capable disposable income. So, I deliberation the White House is throwing retired ideas that volition enactment much disposable income backmost successful consumers' hands.
Unfortunately –
MARGARET BRENNAN: These are not ideas you would person endorsed erstwhile you were successful that advisor role?
GARY COHN: Unfortunately, those ideas astir apt don't lick the problem. In fact, the recognition paper rates astir apt person the other effect. So, recognition paper companies complaint radical a hazard adjusted complaint to lend them money. Obviously, worse credit, radical that person the highest probability of defaulting, wage the highest rates. If you enactment a headdress connected rates that tin beryllium charged, what bash – what bash companies do? They really halt lending to the riskiest portion of the population. And truthful determination consumers volition suffer purchasing power, not summation purchasing power.
You know, connected the lodging side, you know, the 1 happening I would – I punctual radical is the organization accumulation of lodging happened aft the '08 fiscal situation erstwhile we had a monolithic glut of houses successful the United States, prices were plummet, truthful the fiscal marketplace stepped successful and they enactment a enactment underneath the lodging market.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
GARY COHN: And we can't hide however important these fiscal players are successful times of stress.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, we should besides say, you worked for Goldman Sachs and were president determination for a precise agelong time, including during that fiscal crisis. But let's not relitigate immoderate of that, but speech astir idiosyncratic you got to cognize during that time, and that was Kevin Warsh.
GARY COHN: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Who was a Fed politician and is present President Trump's prime to beryllium the adjacent president of the Federal Reserve. He's called for each sorts of reforms of the Fed.
What bash you expect from him successful office?
GARY COHN: So, look, I deliberation we're precise fortunate to person Kevin arsenic – to beryllium the nominee. Kevin has a unsocial inheritance coming successful arsenic the chair. As you said, helium was a subordinate of the Fed committee before. He was determination during the 2008 fiscal crisis. He was instrumental successful that crisis.
What I mean by that is, erstwhile banks were going done stress, and we saw a batch of slope mergers, we saw a batch of assets being moved astir the system, Kevin was the constituent idiosyncratic astatine the Fed. He was progressive successful each 1 of those discussions. And I genuinely believe, without Kevin's expertise and without Kevin being there, we would not person travel retired of the 2008 situation arsenic good arsenic we have. So, he's precise highly qualified.
He's going to instrumentality the Fed backmost to its accepted benignant of norms. You know, I deliberation Kevin's going to enactment retired of a batch of the non-financial issues. He's going to beryllium involved, obviously, successful mounting involvement complaint policy. There is simply a unit close present for involvement rates to spell lower. I deliberation that helium volition astir apt travel done connected the 1 to 2 cuts this year.
Kevin besides has a presumption that the Fed should not person the ample equilibrium sheet. You know, the Fed went successful and bought an tremendous magnitude of securities.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Quantitative easing and –
GARY COHN: I deliberation – I deliberation that Kevin volition reverse that. I deliberation helium volition beryllium looking for the Fed to merchantability down their equilibrium sheet. And connected the regulatory front, I deliberation Kevin is simply a – is simply a traditionalist, believing that we request beardown regularisation successful the United States, but it has to beryllium regularisation that works and allows the marketplace to grow, and allows the user to person entree to capital.
So, I deliberation helium is really the wholly close prime successful this play of time. And connected Friday, erstwhile his information came out, the marketplace spoke.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
GARY COHN: And I deliberation you person to look astatine what the markets archer you due to the fact that they're existent clip feedback indicators.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
GARY COHN: So, we saw the dollar fortify by astir 1 percent. We saw metallic driblet by 25 percent. We saw golden driblet by 10 percent. I could –
MARGARET BRENNAN: The president besides spoke past nighttime astatine a meal and said he's going to writer Warsh if helium doesn't little involvement rates. You instrumentality that arsenic a joke?
GARY COHN: Yes, I instrumentality it arsenic a joke. You know, look, I deliberation the president wholly understands the independency of the Fed. Kevin has been a staunch advocator for independency of the Fed.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, he's got a confirmation process to spell through. And we volition spot if Thom Tillis' petition for the Department of Justice's probe into the existent Fed seat stands successful the mode of really getting him through. But we'll way that.
Gary Cohn, ever bully to person you here
GARY COHN: Thanks for having me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll beryllium close back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We spoke with a bipartisan radical of mayors astir however section governments tin find communal crushed connected solving immoderate of the apical problems facing Americans today, peculiarly affordability concerns similar lodging costs and vigor prices. But for each 4 mayors, Democrats Eileen Higgins of Miami, Quinton Lucas of Kansas City, positive Republicans David Holt of Oklahoma City and Mark Freeman of Mesa, Arizona, it was wide that migration has been adjacent apical of caput pursuing the deadly shootings of protesters successful Minneapolis and the tensions betwixt national and section governments nationwide.
Here's portion of our conversation.
(BEGIN VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mayor Freeman, we checked, 4 percent of the colonisation successful Arizona is undocumented according to Pew. As I recognize it, you've constricted practice with ICE and you manus radical implicit to national authorities if they person an migration infraction but your section authorities picked them up for thing else, right? That's what, successful effect, that argumentation means. Why does that enactment for you erstwhile it doesn't enactment successful places similar Minneapolis and you person this precocious grade of hostility and this standoff?
MARK FREEMAN (R, Mayor of Mesa, Arizona): Well, I – personally, I deliberation – that's a large question, but I deliberation determination is immoderate misinterpretation of it because, successful Mesa, we person an statement with ICE, but, however, it's lone connected infractions that whitethorn beryllium a civilian infraction. And so, we don't person a jailhouse successful Mesa, Arizona. So, we spell to a holding facility. And we've been moving with ICE for – since 2009 with an statement that we recovered precise palmy with.
But much importantly, what we're doing successful Mesa, I've taken – I've elevated it to the adjacent level. We person Dia de los Muertos, the Day of the Dead, that we person with our Hispanic Latino community. We person El Grito, who's the liberation of Spain from Mexico. So, we person these large experiences successful Mesa, Arizona, successful our downtown area, successful practice with our Latino Hispanic area. And I conscionable with our pastors arsenic good to marque definite that everything is going good connected their end.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And you don't consciousness the hostility astatine the section level close now? Like, the statement we're having arsenic a state –
MARK FREEMAN: No, I don't consciousness –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Are radical talking astir it?
MARK FREEMAN: Yes, they speech astir it successful our community, but I americium gathering with the radical who are really affected by it, and they find comfortableness successful knowing that our metropolis stands acceptable to enactment them.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mayor Holt, I privation to inquire you astir your city, but besides successful this enactment relation you have, like, however are you counseling mayors to spell done this close now? This is simply a existent unit astatine the national level to sometimes alteration section laws oregon authorities laws.
DAVID HOLT (R, Mayor of Oklahoma City): Well, I don't know. A fewer – a fewer observations successful absorption to that. I mean, first, it's truly important to constituent retired that we person enforced migration laws successful this state for implicit a century. ICE has been astir for 2 decades. There was adjacent a erstwhile Trump medication that – and successful nary of those times did you spot this level of chaos successful our cities. I recognize successful the erstwhile Trump medication determination was contention astir things astatine the border. But I'm talking astir each the – you know, 1,000 miles from the borderline –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Internal enforcement, yes.
DAVID HOLT: In places similar Minneapolis. So, it's – we tin look backmost to erstwhile eras of normality and admit that determination are ways to competently enforce migration laws successful this country. And I deliberation that's what we're benignant of asking for is that benignant of pivot backmost to a caller strategy, that whitethorn beryllium an aged strategy. And I deliberation we each judge that this medication prioritizes a higher level of enforcement. But what we're seeing successful the conflicts successful the streets of Minneapolis is just, obviously, unacceptable. And we're inactive benignant of reeling from what happened past Saturday.
And, you know, we're mostly encouraged that the medication seems to beryllium exploring that pivot, you know. And, of course, we recognize it takes clip to benignant of get the close unit successful spot and marque the policies. So, I mean, we're giving them that space.
But what was happening successful Minneapolis that benignant of culminated successful the 2nd decease of a protester past Saturday is, obviously, thing that we would each fearfulness to hap successful our cities.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
DAVID HOLT: And we fearfulness that that benignant of chaos was starting to perchance creep astir the country.
I deliberation the different happening I privation to observe, though, is that mayors are surely caught successful a small spot of an intolerable concern because, you know, we instrumentality these roles with our main work being the extortion of our residents. And we're adjacent fixed a constabulary department, radical with guns, to assistance america successful that pursuit.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
DAVID HOLT: But determination is simply a happening called the Supremacy Clause of the United States Constitution. And erstwhile the national authorities and national instrumentality enforcement comes into your city, we are afloat subservient to that successful the eyes of the law. And we besides judge successful the regularisation of law. So, we get caught benignant of successful the mediate of these tensions and we request a national authorities who volition usage discretion and restraint with that power. And that has mostly worked for the past 250 years.
So, I deliberation we conscionable request to punctual everybody that this is imaginable and I deliberation you spot mayors possibly messaging immoderate of that to our residents, immoderate of it to Congress, immoderate of it to the administration, conscionable trying to find a blessed mean for everybody wherever we tin co-exist with each of these inherent tensions that, of course, person ever existed.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
DAVID HOLT: And we person mostly been capable to manage.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, but that's wherefore I deliberation it's truthful absorbing to speech to you each arsenic mayors due to the fact that you really person to woody with these radical time to time and unafraid their safety, arsenic you said, but also, you know, stay compliant.
In Oklahoma, it looks similar the road patrol works with ICE to behaviour stings. So, you bash person immoderate moving unneurotic of authorities and federal.
DAVID HOLT: Yes. I mean it's a authorities agency, the Oklahoma Highway Patrol.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That's right.
DAVID HOLT: That is not our constabulary department.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right. But erstwhile you spot that moving together, is it smooth? Are determination tensions present due to the fact that of what conscionable happened successful the past fewer weeks? Like, are radical questioning whether these policies should stay?
DAVID HOLT: Well, I mean, fto maine differentiate it and marque it clearer.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do radical look astatine Minneapolis and say, that could hap here, is what I'm asking though?
DAVID HOLT: Well, of course. I'm definite each politician successful America, present successful D.C., was feeling that way. And again, not due to the fact that – not due to the fact that immoderate of america deliberation that determination shouldn't beryllium migration enforcement.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
DAVID HOLT: I mean this is not the question. It's just, however is it managed?
I mean we person immoderate politician colleagues that were erstwhile constabulary chiefs, for example. Have truly large expertise successful instrumentality enforcement. We're each amateurs, right, but these are radical who did this for a living. And they're telling us, they look astatine these videos and they spot constabulary tactics that haven't been utilized anyplace successful 30 years successful a section instrumentality enforcement agency. That these are – these are not the cutting borderline techniques of instrumentality enforcement that we person been using, our constabulary departments person been utilizing for the past 4th period to physique spot with our communities.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
DAVID HOLT: And so, that's what's – it's not the – we're not truly arguing astir whether this state should enforce immigration.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
DAVID HOLT: Everybody believes that. I mean not everybody, but the wide swath of the American nationalist does. But what we are arguing astir is constabulary tactics and strategies and managing engagement with residents connected the street. You know, we person built truthful overmuch spot successful these past fewer years and worked truly hard astatine that. And, obviously, this full concern has threatened to erode that trust.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
Mayor Lucas, I privation to travel to you connected this thought of however the national authorities is trying to instrumentality migration successful your city. Because we checked, and I judge you person a akin acquisition retired successful Oklahoma too, wherever the national government's looking to crook concern warehouses into large-scale detention facilities for up to 10,000 people. That has caused immoderate friction successful Kansas City. You person tried to alteration things. You passed a metropolis ordinance to combat it.
Can you really halt the national authorities from doing it?
QUINTON LUCAS (D, Mayor of Kansas City, Missouri): You know, I deliberation there's important question to it. The radical of Kansas City person asked america to marque sure, though, that we basal up for, successful this situation, elemental zoning. That we marque definite that we stock what is the viewpoint of the radical of Kansas City. There perfectly is simply a supremacy clause. There's besides a Tenth Amendment. And so, successful our view, that is – which is reserved to the states, which includes section zoning, section constabulary powers, peculiarly wherever backstage contractors are successful the transaction with the metropolis we person the accidental to engage.
There's been a agelong combat adjacent america successful Leavenworth, Kansas, you know, for a situation successful a subject basal wherever they've besides managed to cull the placement of a national installation moving done a backstage enterprise.
So, we wanted to marque wide not that radical mostly didn't privation a 10,000- idiosyncratic detention installation adjacent them, but besides that they person to spell done things similar zoning, a peculiar usage permit. It sounds successful immoderate mode boring. It is halfway to what authorities is.
But I deliberation taking america from possibly the governmental issue, determination is the elemental one, which is, successful each of our communities, we privation to marque definite radical are treated humanely. Converting a gigantic organisation installation adjacent to railroad tracks and each of that into a warehouse for 10,000 radical for which it was ne'er designed is not right. And it is fundamentally thing that is inhumane and inhospitable, astatine slightest to the senses that we person successful Kansas City, and I would taxable to you astir American cities.
So, whether it is converting elephantine organisation facilities into wide detention warehouses, whether it's Alligator Alcatraz successful Florida, oregon thing nether the sun, I deliberation you are seeing communities say, we privation to marque definite that if determination volition beryllium detention, if determination volition beryllium enforcement, it is accordant with law principles agelong term.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Can you halt it? Do you cognize yet?
QUINTON LUCAS: You know, I deliberation that astir apt that would beryllium a national territory tribunal determination.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
QUINTON LUCAS: I person seen – determination person been galore zoning battles implicit the years astir what tin beryllium done. I deliberation the information that you chiefly person backstage enterprises that are looking to physique these, past lease to the government, creates immoderate level of a question.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And earlier we permission the taxable of immigration, Mayor Higgins, astir 7 percent of Florida is undocumented according to Pew. In Miami, the constabulary cooperate with ICE. But you, during your campaign, were precise captious of that determination to cooperate. Can you alteration the argumentation without the politician being onboard?
EILEEN HIGGINS (D, Mayor of Miami): We were – the politician issued a request that section municipalities cooperate with ICE. And galore municipalities, including the metropolis of Miami, earlier I became mayor, signed that agreement. It is precise hard to unwind. It would instrumentality a ballot of our metropolis committee to bash so.
So, obviously, arsenic mayor, I mean to comply with the law. And truthful what we person done successful our 1,500 idiosyncratic constabulary section is we person trained 3 individuals should ICE telephone that are capable to reply that telephone and enactment with them. Obviously, we're going to comply with the law, but we are not going to assistance beyond that due to the fact that successful my assemblage successful southbound Florida, we are the astir affected.
ICE and its tactics person been successful my assemblage for implicit a year. They person been causing large fearfulness and panic successful our residents. I cannot spell anyplace without gathering someone, my brother, my uncle, my sister, Alligator Alcatraz, (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE), we don't cognize wherever they person been taken. And that has been going connected for months. It is inhumane. It is cruel. I'm a Catholic. It's – I tin hardly grapple with the deficiency of humanity astir each this.
And past what we have, precise otherwise from immoderate different community, successful Miami- Dade County, we – which we are a portion of, astir 15 percent of our colonisation has TPS. So, you're talking –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Temporary protected status.
EILEEN HIGGINS: Temporary protected status. We're talking astir betwixt 250,000 and 300,000 individuals that would – that person dilatory by but surely – arsenic they've mislaid status, they'll travel overnight, illegals successful the eyes of the national government, and this enforcement successful our Nicaraguan community, our (INAUDIBLE) community, our Venezuelan community, has driven galore radical into hiding, children are not going to school, and, obviously, ICE is deporting them.
Tuesday nighttime we look a very, precise dire situation. Our Haitian assemblage loses its entree to TPS astatine midnight. Twenty percent of TPS recipients with Haitian practice enactment successful wellness care. So, connected Wednesday, we are talking astir nursing homes, location wellness attraction aides, hospitals, nurses, doc aides, each of them are going to beryllium retired of a occupation erstwhile they aftermath up connected Wednesday morning.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Because their ineligible pathway and presumption is going to beryllium revoked.
EILEEN HIGGINS: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And abruptly they go illegal.
EILEEN HIGGINS: Unnecessarily. Haiti is not safe. Venezuela is not safe. TPS should beryllium extended instantly for Venezuelans. It was erased with a changeable of a pen. It tin beryllium enactment successful spot with the changeable of a pen. And TPS for Haitian immigrants should perfectly positively beryllium extended. Our system is astatine involvement and our humanity is astatine stake.
(END VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: As Mayor Higgins mentioned, ineligible protections for Haitians connected the impermanent protected presumption programme extremity this Tuesday, but determination are aggregate lawsuits by advocacy groups to effort and halt it from expiring. A national justice successful Washington, D.C., is expected to measurement successful connected 1 of those cases successful the coming days. We'll support watching.
You tin find the afloat speech with the mayors connected our YouTube leafage and connected our website, facethenation.com.
We'll beryllium close back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That's it for america today. Thank you each for watching. Until adjacent week. For "FACE THE NATION," I'm Margaret Brennan.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
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