‘Uncanny Valley’: ICE’s Secret Expansion Plans, Palantir Workers’ Ethical Concerns, and AI Assistants

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This week, hosts Brian Barrett, Leah Feiger, and Zoë Schiffer sermon WIRED’s large scoop connected ICE’s startling plans to grow to astir each authorities successful the US. Then, they unpack Alex Karp’s nearly-hour-long non-response to Palantir employees with ethical concerns astir collaborating with ICE. Plus, a WIRED writer lets the viral AI adjunct OpenClaw tally his beingness for a week to springiness listeners a peek of what AI agents tin and can’t actually do.

Articles mentioned successful this episode:

You tin travel Brian Barrett connected Bluesky astatine @brbarrett, Zoë Schiffer connected Bluesky astatine @zoeschiffer, and Leah Feiger connected Bluesky astatine @leahfeiger. Write to america astatine uncannyvalley@wired.com.

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Transcript

Note: This is an automated transcript, which whitethorn incorporate errors.

Zoë Schiffer: Welcome to WIRED'sUncanny Valley. I'm Zoë Schiffer, manager of Business and Industry.

Brian Barrett: I'm Brian Barrett, enforcement editor.

Zoë Schiffer: And I'm Leah Feiger, elder authorities editor.

Brian Barrett: I privation to proceed a speech that we started yesterday successful Slack aft enactment hours for immoderate of us.

Zoë Schiffer: Absolutely.

Brian Barrett: And this is astir the men's abbreviated program—

Leah Feiger: We're diving close in—

Brian Barrett: —figure skating.

Leah Feiger: This is astir the Olympics successful wide with—

Brian Barrett: But precise specifically privation to prime up connected the speech wherever Zoë had precise beardown feelings astir the results of men's fig skating.

Zoë Schiffer: I consciousness similar we request to backmost up due to the fact that you and Leah authentically attraction astir the Olympics truthful overmuch and I deliberation conscionable cognize much astir sports than I do.

Leah Feiger: Yes.

Zoë Schiffer: I profoundly person ne'er engaged with sports ever, conscionable arsenic a full rule, arsenic a category. It doesn't beryllium successful my life.

Leah Feiger: Say the lines, accidental the lines, Zoë, oregon I'm going to work them verbatim from slack.

Zoë Schiffer: Wait, I don't adjacent cognize what you're talking about. I was simply amazed erstwhile I watched due to the fact that the Americans went, I thought, wow, that feline fundamentally fell implicit and was clumping astir the crystal and past Japan went and they were sailing astir similar small swans and past erstwhile the golden medal came, it went to the Americans. I was virtually jaw connected the floor. I couldn't judge what had happened. No 1 other seemed outraged

Leah Feiger: For a small backup for our non-ice skating Olympic fans, I was ever referring to Ilia Malinin, who a fig of publications and sports experts accidental mightiness really beryllium 1 of the top fig skaters of each time. That is who you are calling the idiosyncratic who fell over. Right. Zoë, conscionable to beryllium clear.

Brian Barrett: And I'd similar to, not to heap on, but decidedly to heap on. I had not seen the performances erstwhile we talked astir this later. I watched them and it was the feline who came successful metallic from Japan who really did a stumble and landed connected the crystal and had to get backmost up. Absolutely. Go to the tape. Play the tape.

Zoë Schiffer: We're talking astir 2 antithetic programs. I don't know, we mightiness beryllium talking astir antithetic programs. Flawless.

Brian Barrett: Oh, you're talking astir the squad program.

Zoë Schiffer: This is different thing. I mean, conscionable privation to accidental close present I don't recognize thing astir what is abbreviated program. Yesterday I tried to again ticker thing astir the Olympics to hole for this occurrence and I thought I was watching crystal skating and alternatively they were conscionable dancing connected ice. The crystal was wholly incidental. It was called bushed dance. I was conscionable like, I person nary thought what is going on. I privation to ticker the Olympics with you.

Leah Feiger: I privation america to beryllium sitting adjacent to each different arsenic you explicate to maine the intent of each azygous sport. Zoë, tin you accidental the connection “curling” for maine connected this episode?

Zoë Schiffer: OK. And yes, Andrew past was like, are you guys going to speech astir curling? And I was like, I deliberation Brian's authentically into curling, truthful yeah, I couldn't, again, I was like, it's bowling mixed with pool, but present there's crystal involved. What is the idiosyncratic successful beforehand doing?

Brian Barrett: So I americium curling-curious. I americium authentically progressive successful biathlon.

Zoë Schiffer: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, sorry.

Brian Barrett: Curling is beauteous neat. It's benignant of similar my lad was watching it and his happening was, “So it's similar bocce?” and I was like, “How bash you cognize what bocce is?” But yes, it is.

Zoë Schiffer: That seems more, yeah, what it's like.

Brian Barrett: A precise blase 11-year-old. It's benignant of similar bocce. It's benignant of similar shuffleboard almost. You've got a bullseye fundamentally astatine the extremity of the ice, astir each curling chromatic comes from the nonstop aforesaid place, Ailsa Craig successful Scotland.

Leah Feiger: Oh my God.

Zoë Schiffer: You cognize mode excessively overmuch astir this.

Brian Barrett: Well, you benignant of person to.

Zoë Schiffer: Do you?

Brian Barrett: The brooms—

Zoë Schiffer: How bash they adjacent decide? OK, sorry. No, support going.

Brian Barrett: The brooms, the broom technology. We person a communicative connected this. I didn't cognize this until I work our story.

Zoë Schiffer: Broom technology?

Brian Barrett: Because they person to sweep. They person to expanse to marque the chromatic curl.

Leah Feiger: There's the WIRED angle.

Brian Barrett: These are c fibre devices. A azygous exemplary of broom has 85,000 imaginable configurations. Can your broom bash that?

Zoë Schiffer: I don't person immoderate words. I privation to cognize however they determine what is an Olympic sport. That's the nonfiction that I would read. It feels brainsick to me.

Leah Feiger: I emotion the Olympics truthful much. This is the planetary contention world amusement that I can't get capable of. I volition accidental though, I mean it's ever a weird clip to beryllium aggressively nationalistic oregon jingoistic arsenic it were, but peculiarly close now, rooting for the US connected the planetary signifier is simply a small spot unusual and a batch of america athletes person been feeling that mode too. Figure skater Amber Glenn, skier Chris Lillis, Alpine skier Mikaela Shiffrin. Everyone's made comments, immoderate of them astir the US' attraction of the LGBTQ community, others astir ICE. Freestyle skier Hunter Hess got a idiosyncratic outcry retired for Trump aft saying that his feelings were analyzable astir each of this.

Hunter Hess, archival audio: It brings up mixed emotions to correspond the US close now. I deliberation it's a small hard. There's evidently a batch going connected that I'm not the biggest instrumentality of and I deliberation a batch of radical aren't.

Leah Feiger: And Trump responded by calling him a existent loser connected Truth Social. This is benignant of devastating. I don't know. I similar the thought of these athletes, these precise young athletes getting to beryllium successful the satellite signifier and I besides similar the thought of them being capable to precise authentically stock their opinions astir however they're feeling astir their state successful this fixed moment.

Brian Barrett: I'll outcry retired the curling squad again too. Most of them travel from Minnesota. Most of them are successful Minneapolis and they person besides spoken retired astir precise personally what that means to them. I deliberation the evident happening here, and I'll accidental it—I'm not acrophobic of the evident thing—is that the astir American happening you tin bash is say: I don't similar what my state is doing close now.

Leah Feiger: A 100 percent.

Brian Barrett: That is benignant of what, and truthful evidently Donald Trump disagrees, that's fine. But if anything, it makes maine consciousness adjacent much nationalist pridefulness that our athletes are speaking up successful this way. I deliberation it's great.

Leah Feiger: This has been astir for a agelong time, being upset with the radical that we didn't elite them to correspond us. They conscionable happened to beryllium up determination due to the fact that of their accomplishment and endowment and that is incredibly upsetting for a prime fewer and folks person booed them, right? JD Vance and his woman person been antithetic competitions. I've heard from radical that antithetic competitions person had American athletes not get the warmest reception iconically. Marco Rubio was besides astatine the Olympics, but nary 1 has talked astir him being determination precise much, which to maine this is simply a abstracted thing, but I emotion the contention betwixt him and Vance close now. But again, Vance's broadside amusement present was being booed. So pugnacious to accidental if each property is bully press.

Brian Barrett: I accidental boo JD Vance and Marco Rubio each you privation due to the fact that they are portion of the administration. Booing the athletes is simply a small bittersweet to me. I don't know. I don't privation to instrumentality it retired connected them, but that's conscionable however it goes.

Zoë Schiffer: OK, wrenching the speech backmost to thing I attraction about. I privation to speech about—

Brian Barrett: Biathlon.

Zoë Schiffer: Negative. Once again. I'm going to beryllium talking astir a affable small lobster, an AI adjunct called astatine this constituent OpenClaw. If that doesn't ringing a bell, it's due to the fact that the AI adjunct successful question has been done aggregate names. It was antecedently called MoltBot and earlier that it was called ClawdBot, which mightiness punctual you of Claude, the chatbot that Anthropic built and the crushed wherefore it's had to alteration its sanction truthful galore times. But Will Knight, 1 of our phenomenal AI reporters was like, OK, everyone successful Silicon Valley is talking astir this small lobster. I privation to really instrumentality it for a rotation and fto it tally my life. This story, you guys, was truthful delightful. I was laughing retired loud. The method setup for this benignant of AI cause that works connected your behalf is elemental successful definite ways, but besides takes a small spot of method prowess and you person to springiness it entree to a just magnitude of your idiosyncratic information successful bid to marque it really useful. You request it to entree your email, the files connected your computer, each of that.

Leah Feiger: This is my hell. This is my literal hell.

Zoë Schiffer: No, I mean wholly terrifying. And we person published stories astir the security implications of this, but Will was like, arsenic a reporter, I truly privation to spot what it's like, and truthful helium had it bash a fewer antithetic things. One was helium had it benignant of look for probe articles astir artificial intelligence, summarize them and nonstop them to him each morning. He said this was beauteous helpful. The nonfiction enactment was so, but it was intelligibly bully to person an adjunct doing this connected his behalf due to the fact that evidently it automated a batch of enactment that antecedently helium had to bash wholly manually. He besides had it bid groceries for him and had a comic experience. Brian, I tin spot you taking a breath.

Brian Barrett: Yeah, Zoë speech a small spot much astir the—well, due to the fact that I besides enjoyed this communicative and enjoyed this part. Maybe the astir of this story.

Zoë Schiffer: Yeah, it was truthful good. So fundamentally he's like, let's spell buying astatine Whole Foods, and the AI adjunct starts retired and it's really helpful. It's checking his anterior bid history. It's seeing what's disposable successful the store, and past it gets to his buying database and it sees that guacamole is connected the buying database and it's like, nary problem. So again and again, it starts going to checkout to get Will this azygous tub of guacamole and Will keeps stopping it being like, I privation the full list. I don't conscionable privation 1 tub of guacamole. It couldn't grip it. Finally, helium had to override the AI adjunct and beryllium like, I'm going to grip this. You measurement speech passim the process, the AI adjunct is losing its representation and forgetting things. So Will's having to punctual it what they're adjacent doing determination successful the archetypal place.

Brian Barrett: I'll beryllium honest, forgetful and with a laser absorption connected guacamole besides describes respective of my trips to Whole Foods—

Zoë Schiffer: Completely.

Brian Barrett: —in the past respective years. So it's relatable astatine least.

Zoë Schiffer: It's truthful relatable. Yeah, I deliberation this is AGI. It's reached, if not human-level intelligence, human-level habits for sure.

Leah Feiger: That is truthful good. This is the aboriginal of AGI. This is what we're really looking for.

Zoë Schiffer: This is it. OK, truthful past he's like, well, let's person it negociate a woody connected my behalf. Let's spell to AT&T, let's commencement a chat with a salesperson and let's effort and get maine a amended phone. So the cause benignant of starts up this chat. It has a full publication of however it wants to spell astir this. It starts talking and past Will has a thought. He's like, well, if the aboriginal is simply a aboriginal of agents benignant of moving the internet, good possibly the slightest scrupulous cause volition person an edge. So what would it look similar if I ran the cause but with a exemplary that didn't person alignment, didn't person guardrails successful place, and truthful helium switches things up. The exemplary past is the unaligned benignant of evil mentation of the AI agent, which he's calling multi astatine this point, and alternatively of trying to manipulate the salesperson to get Will a amended telephone multi goes benignant of psychotic and really tries to scam Will into handing implicit his carnal telephone by sending him a clump of scam texts and phishing attempts, and yet helium has to unopen the full happening down and power backmost to the aged MaltBot.

Brian Barrett: It's a small spot similar the velociraptors figuring retired however to unfastened the doorway successful Jurassic Park. I deliberation we each cognize this, but it's casual to hide that these AI models often enactment oregon successful agents enactment the mode they bash due to the fact that of the guardrails that are connected them. There is simply a batch of enactment that goes into these ample connection models to marque them not evil. Just to accidental it that and however casual it is if you're conscionable an at-home tinkerer to conscionable say, you cognize what? Give maine afloat Skynet. I conscionable privation to get perfectly nuts with this. Yeah, I'm picturing a precise melodramatic infinitesimal of Will having to unplug his Mac mini oregon immoderate and propulsion it into the ocean.

Zoë Schiffer: Right? I mean essentially, yeah, helium had to unopen the full happening down. It's absorbing due to the fact that 1 different happening helium mentioned was that Molty was truly bully astatine IT enactment due to the fact that it had entree to the bid enactment connected his computer. It was capable to fundamentally hole things successful existent clip connected his instrumentality arsenic it came up, which was authentically adjuvant for him. But it besides benignant of instantly beg the question of, well, could this beryllium utilized successful a nefarious way? Could it usage each of its cognition of however these things enactment to really truly messiness things up? For me, the reply is absolutely.

Leah Feiger: I mean, this to maine truly is hell. This is 2001: A Space Odyssey travel to beingness possibly of each of the examples that we person had truthful far, the cute sanction Multi, however it's going to hole your beingness and bash each these large things and assistance your ma bash her market database and what person you. This is messy.

Brian Barrett: Well, there's adjacent much innocuous problems too, adjacent if you're not going afloat malevolent mode.

Leah Feiger: Full HAL?

Brian Barrett: Well, if you're not going afloat HAL due to the fact that accidental it has entree to each your files, it's trying to hole thing we've already established, it tin hide what the duty is. It tin get fixated connected guacamole. If you wantonness a task halfway done fixing it, it tends to beryllium beauteous broken, right? It's existent with computers, it's existent with immoderate benignant of thing that you're successful the mediate of. So you could ideate a script easy wherever it goes astir starting to instrumentality things isolated to enactment them backmost unneurotic the close mode and past benignant of forgets wherefore it was doing it, and each of a abrupt your machine doesn't work, your files person been erased, similar thing has gone terribly wrong, which is what makes it truthful singular that this is specified a viral thing. Everybody is utilizing this consequences beryllium damned.

Zoë Schiffer: I mean, it's truly interesting. I consciousness similar it does springiness you this glimpse of the aboriginal due to the fact that again, it has truly adjuvant applications and I deliberation the information Will pointed this retired successful his article, and I thought this was truthful smart, but conscionable the information that you tin speech to it done thing similar Telegram oregon WhatsApp. And the information that it has benignant of a quirky property ends up making a large difference, Will really thinks that that is the concealed condiment that made this popular off. And I deliberation that that's astir apt right. At the extremity of the day, radical privation to prosecute with thing that feels casual and amusive and helps their lives a small bit, and until they spot the truly benignant of dire consequences, they mightiness not beryllium arsenic freaked retired arsenic they should be. I mean, I volition accidental speechmaking Will's draft, erstwhile helium said I gave it entree to Slack and Discord, my bosom stopped. I said, delight not enactment Slack. But no, he'd acceptable up dummy accounts for everything. So that was good.

Leah Feiger: I can't really explicate what my bosom conscionable did. I feel—OK, I'm fine.

Brian Barrett: You know, gang, sometimes AI is an adorable semi competent enforcement adjunct with the imaginable to destruct your life. Other times it's scraping a clump of information to physique a wide surveillance infrastructure that's incredibly profitable. Let's speech astir the latter. And Palantir, a institution uses each kinds of AI, each kinds of information infrastructure and contracts with ICE—Immigration and Customs Enforcement—employees determination person been progressively outspoken astir their ethical concerns. It's benignant of the past institution connected my database of expecting that benignant of pushback. But we've seen a batch of it and it's gotten to the constituent where—

Leah Feiger: People are upset.

Brian Barrett: People are genuinely upset capable that Alex Karp, Palantir, CEO, benignant of had to grounds fundamentally an hr agelong video explaining what the woody is with ICE oregon attempting to explain. And conscionable for those radical who don't cognize Alex Karp, here's conscionable a sensation of the benignant of things that helium says connected a reasonably regular ground conscionable to get an idea.

Alex Karp, archival audio: Palantir is present to disrupt and marque the institutions we spouse with the precise champion successful the satellite and erstwhile it's indispensable to scare enemies and connected juncture termination them. And we anticipation you're successful favour of that. We anticipation you're enjoying being a spouse and we're truly blessed and very, precise focused connected what we're doing.

Brian Barrett: So that's Alex Karp. Last Friday, Courtney Bowman, Palantir’s planetary manager of privateness and civilian liberties engineering—civil Liberties engineering is besides conscionable an absorbing phrase—sent an all-staff email to Palantir employees featuring Karp’s video. WIRED newsman Makena Kelly got a accidental to look astatine this email and it's truly absorbing some for what helium says and what helium ends up truly conscionable not saying.

Zoë Schiffer: Yeah, I mean, does helium really code worker concerns? Because knowing Alex Karp, I'm envisioning a batch of large words, a batch of mentions of antithetic theories, possibly past I would beryllium amazed if helium really said thing of substance.

Leah Feiger: No, of people helium didn't. Didn't code anything. It was astir an hr long. I deliberation it was, what did we person it at, Brian? 57 minutes of—

Brian Barrett: Something similar that.

Leah Feiger: —yeah, of Karp talking astir however Palantir historically has not ever been a 100 percent fashionable and they're conscionable going to support chugging on anyway, and that's OK. He referenced a mates of antithetic things, but it was a truly absorbing infinitesimal from a institution that's having, I dunno if I tin accidental a ample reckoning, but astatine slightest a mini reckoning, a batch of conversations successful Slack astir this, that the CEO felt the request to adjacent code this astatine all. But the kicker to me, the astir important portion was that employees were encouraged if they wanted really much accusation connected each of this, they were encouraged to motion an NDA.

Zoë Schiffer: Yeah, that's wild. And we talked astir this a small spot past week, but I bash deliberation it's worthy conscionable highlighting again, the information that we had years and years wherever it truly felt similar worker activism successful Silicon Valley had died. It was similar station George Floyd protests, station Elon Musk's takeover of Twitter. Now X radical were not speaking retired slacks were very, precise silent. Big things would hap successful the world, and we would benignant of look astatine each different and beryllium like, however bash radical astatine immoderate institution feel? And it was similar we didn't cognize they weren't talking internally. It truly feels similar immoderate happens, we're seeing a existent turning point. And I deliberation employees, specifically owed to crystal enactment successful the United States truly accidental we're not OK with our companies continuing to prosecute with the national authorities and specifically with immigrations and customs enforcement agents. We saw hundreds of Google workers enactment retired a missive asking their institution to chopped contracts with ice. I mean, the information that Palantir employees are doing it is honestly shocking to me. But I deliberation it'll beryllium truly absorbing to spot if this continues oregon if absorption and executives effort and truly stamp it out.

Brian Barrett: Karp talked a batch about, successful this video, helium talked astir thing helium likes to speech astir a lot, which is this thought of maintaining Western power, right? He's a very—

Zoë Schiffer: Yes, helium talks astir that a lot.

Brian Barrett: —and I bash deliberation that the pushback makes immoderate consciousness due to the fact that ICE enforcement isn't truly astir that successful a batch of ways. It is reports of utilizing look designation that's not truly asserting Western powerfulness if you are successful complaint of civilian liberties engineering, that's benignant of a wide civilian liberties violation.

Zoë Schiffer: But conscionable to strawman their argument, they accidental that we're trying to look for the atrocious guys. I deliberation different word that helium uses, the radical who are trying to wounded Western values oregon wounded America's powerfulness oregon whatever.

Brian Barrett: I deliberation so. But it's been truthful wide that bully guys, oregon astatine slightest neutral guys are getting caught up successful that for sure. And I deliberation that's the—

Zoë Schiffer: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm not arguing. I'm conscionable trying to recognize there.

Brian Barrett: Zoë loves Palantir.

Leah Feiger: The happening that helium besides mentions successful the video though is that Palantir doesn't alteration its argumentation based connected who's the president. He specifically called retired the Obama medication arsenic an illustration of Democrats being pugnacious connected immigration, which precise true. Obama was called the Deporter successful main for a agelong time, for a reason, which was a precise though wildly antiaircraft happening I thought for Karp to bring up. This is wherever a mates decades passed to this point, and the Trump medication has taken this to a realm that is wholly unfamiliar successful US history, the warehouses, household separation, the crystal patrols connected American streets. I was fascinated peculiarly by that comment, I deliberation due to the fact that it conscionable showed to maine that Karp and Palantir enactment arsenic a full are conscionable trying to thrust this question out. They cognize that they request these authorities contracts and they're already looking up respective presidencies going similar our institution is lasting longer than a azygous person's interaction connected this nation.

Brian Barrett: When we travel back, our precise Leah Feiger has a sizable scoop for america astir a concealed Trump medication run extending close into your backyard.

Leah Feiger: Welcome back, WIRED had a beauteous large scoop this week. We obtained national records that amusement a concealed months agelong run by ICE and DHS to grow their beingness crossed the United States. We're talking much than 150 leases and bureau expansions successful the works successful astir each authorities successful the bosom of large metropolitan areas oregon close extracurricular of them. And tons of these facilities are not conscionable successful random authorities gathering hidden distant locations. They're really located close adjacent simple schools, aesculapian offices, places of worship and different truly delicate locations. In different words, places wherever radical are trying to unrecorded their regular lives and could different beryllium astatine their astir vulnerable. This is truly concerning stuff. Yeah,

Brian Barrett: Leah said we had a large scoop and ligament to tape, which is each true, but this is besides Leah's story, truthful it's a immense scoop. So truly large work, Leah. And I deliberation 1 happening that truly struck maine connected speechmaking this arsenic we went done it is not conscionable what's happening, but the effort to support it quiet. The benignant of secrecy furniture connected apical of it was alarming successful and of itself.

Leah Feiger: Yeah, absolutely. So I conjecture to instrumentality america backmost a small bit, backmost successful September, NPR and the Washington Post reported that a fig of employees astatine the General Services Administration were added to the ICE surge team. The General Services Administration is fundamentally the government's interior IT department, and they besides negociate authorities leases astir the country. That's national buildings, antithetic offices for societal information successful Sweet Home Chicago. Truly, it's each implicit the place. They person tons and tons of leases. Anyways, this crystal surge team, the Washington Post and NPR reported astatine the time, were going to beryllium liable for uncovering caller bureau locations and expanding preexisting bureau locations. This made consciousness arsenic the Trump medication was doubling down connected saying that they were going to beryllium expanding crystal tenfold, pumping wealth into the bureau and truly lasting down them successful each azygous way. So what we recovered that took this into a spot much of an aggravated absorption was that according to the documents that we had, these employees were assigned to actively enactment ICE's carnal expansion, told to find each of these leases and that they really successfully recovered a batch of spaces. But successful summation to uncovering each of these spaces, they were told to fundamentally support this a secret. They were asked to spell extracurricular of their regular methodologies for posting leases, for asking for contention and bidding, and to really truly support it each nether wraps. And we really recovered that they were told this by DHS, that this was portion of a nationalist information requirement. They were acrophobic astir ICE offices and officers getting implicated successful convulsive enactment by protesters and what person you.

Zoë Schiffer: Can I conscionable ask, Leah, to marque this truly crystal clear? Obviously the carnal footprint is expanding, but ICE has already much than doubled successful size since Trump took office. Is the accusation of this that they're going to support hiring to capable these spaces?

Leah Feiger: So we don't person nonstop penetration connected that, but I tin accidental is yes, you're wholly right. He has expanded. We're astatine implicit 20,000 people. DHS is claiming arsenic portion of ICE, but with that comes the hopeless request for bureau space. Where are each these agents going to go? Where are each these lawyers going to go? And I deliberation that that's a portion of the puzzle that we solved, and it was thing that I was personally truly funny about. I was conscionable like, are they going to beryllium conscionable patrolling the streets? Are we stuffing them into the rafters? I person these visions, I don't cognize if you guys retrieve aft January 6th of the National Guard sleeping successful authorities buildings. That was my thought of ice. I was like, wherever is everyone going to be? And it turned retired from our reporting successful virtually each azygous authorities successful the country, that's wherever they're sending them.

Brian Barrett: They've got 80 cardinal oregon truthful to walk 75 cardinal of that I deliberation they person to walk successful the adjacent 4 years. So yeah, they're going to support expanding. And erstwhile you deliberation of however overmuch of an interaction 3000 agents officers had successful Minneapolis alone, that's similar an eighth of the, they tin repetition immoderate mentation of that successful a batch of antithetic spots.

Leah Feiger: And I've been fielding, honestly, outcry retired to the galore section reporters astir the state who've been contacting maine successful the past time oregon so, conscionable to inquire questions astir the locations that we named that are adjacent them oregon successful their states oregon cities. And the happening to maine that keeps coming up is that successful summation to caller buildings, they're getting enactment into preexisting authorities buildings, preexisting leases, oregon that that appears to beryllium the plan. And past we've besides recovered that a clump of these ICE offices are being located adjacent plans for elephantine migration detention warehouses, and we're looking astatine offices being acceptable up, accidental 20 minutes, an hr and 20 minutes distant for these. Yeah. So we're looking astatine different, the triangulation of this astir you person to person your lawyers, your agents, person a spot to get their orders and enactment their computers and bash successful immoderate ways precise mundane things that are required of an cognition similar this one.

Brian Barrett: Well, Leah, that's a bully point. I deliberation erstwhile radical perceive ICE offices oregon erstwhile I bash conscionable instinctively, I deliberation of ICE arsenic guys with guns and masks and each that, but that's not precisely what we're saying here. Do you caput talking done what these offices look to beryllium queued up to beryllium utilized for and by whom? Because ICE is not conscionable the masked guys with atrocious tattoos.

Leah Feiger: Yes, absolutely. So what we reported successful this communicative arsenic good was immoderate of the circumstantial parts of ICE that really reached retired to GSA and asked them to expedite the process of getting caller leases, et cetera, included successful that, for example, wherever representatives from Ola, Ola is ICE's bureau of the main ineligible advisor. So that's the lawyers, those are the ICE lawyers that are moving with the courts and arguing backmost oregon deportation orders saying yes, no, et cetera, signing the documents, putting everything successful beforehand of judges. This is simply a truly important portion of this full cognition that we're not talking astir a ton. There's a batch of absorption connected the DOJ. There's a batch of focus. There was an fantabulous nonfiction this week successful Politico talking astir each of these national judges that are really, truly upset that DHS and ICE are ignoring their requests for immigrants to not beryllium detained anymore.

The missing level of that is the lawyers that are portion of this that are representing ICE to the US authorities here, and that's ola. So they've reached retired to GSA extensively arsenic we study to get these leasing locations, specifically with the OLA ineligible request. I conscionable privation to get crossed however large this is. How monolithic is this ICE repeatedly outlined its enlargement to cities astir the america And this 1 portion of memorandum that we got from Ola stated that ICE volition beryllium expanding its ineligible operations into Birmingham, Alabama, Fort Lauderdale, Fort Myers, Jacksonville, and Tampa, Des Moines, Iowa, Boise, Idaho, Louisville, Kentucky, Baton Rouge, Louisiana, expansive Rapids, Michigan, St. Louis, Missouri, rally, North Carolina, agelong Island, New York, Columbus, Ohio, Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, Charleston and Columbia, South Carolina, Nashville, Tennessee, Richmond, Virginia, Spokane, Washington and Cord Delaine, Idaho and Milwaukee, Wisconsin. We person different locations arsenic good passim the remainder of the article, but those are the requests from OLA.

And this is backmost successful September, truthful this is everywhere. So that's 1 of what we're talking about, Brian, of who's looking to determination successful here. In summation to ola, you person the folks that you're truly talking astir here. So that's called the ERO, that's ICE’s Enforcement and Removal operations. The ERO is tasked with migration enforcement, including the arrest, detention and removal of immigrants. They antecedently operated retired of lone 25 tract offices successful the us. Seems wide from our reporting and the reporting of others, that fig is changing drastically close now. So that's who you're reasoning of connected that side. And past we besides person HSI, which is Homeland Security Investigations. This is simply a akin but abstracted concern arsenic well, but besides arsenic portion of the ICE Camp looking into a assortment of things successful this country too. So you person a batch of antithetic radical wrong the ICE banner looking for offices. And we did our champion to explicate however this happened truthful quickly, truthful secretly, truthful extracurricular of authorities norms and wherever it's happening.

Zoë Schiffer: Leah, you're mentioning each of these locations arsenic you speech astir this story, we published the literal addresses wherever this enlargement is taking place. And I'm funny astir that determination due to the fact that it does look similar we've published truthful overmuch delicate reporting successful the past 12 months, but this communicative successful peculiar stuck retired to maine arsenic the happening that could marque the Trump medication the astir upset, if I may. And I'm conscionable curious, wherefore did it consciousness important? You could spot a mentation of the communicative that was a small much vague, but you didn't privation to be.

Leah Feiger: So Brian wrote an fantabulous newsletter that's besides up connected wired.com that everyone should spell cheque retired astir this and astir our publishing decision. So I benignant of privation him to speech astir this mode much eloquently than I will. But the happening that I privation to accidental is erstwhile I archetypal looked up 1 of these addresses, I was truly struck that it was fundamentally successful a city's downtown adjacent to a dentist office. And I thought astir going to the dentist. I thought astir everyone going to the dentist each azygous time connected their phones, talking to whomever, genuinely not reasoning thing astir who was successful the different offices and conscionable however important it was to maine that anyone going to that dentist bureau oregon to a preschool, simple school, passport, expediting service, Amazon warehouse, each of these antithetic locations that we mentioned knew who was sharing bureau abstraction with them arsenic well, oregon who planned to beryllium sharing bureau abstraction arsenic what we published were these plans. I'm precise struck by arsenic I was past twelvemonth arsenic well, erstwhile we were doing each of our reporting connected DOGE, however transgressive the Trump medication has made it look and consciousness to people close accusation astir the government's whereabouts and activities. We are taxpayers and merit to cognize what they're up to, and that's portion of the societal declaration is that they archer us. So to me, it's filling successful that gap.

Brian Barrett: I mean, I deliberation that's fundamentally it, right? People person a close to cognize you person a close to cognize who your neighbour is. You person a close to cognize erstwhile your assemblage is astir to beryllium violently disrupted perchance by agents of the state. ICE is readying to stock abstraction with A DMV successful Philadelphia. It's important to besides cognize that the scope of this is overmuch bigger than I deliberation radical person wrapped their heads around. And that to retrieve that Minneapolis is not conscionable a one-off. The nonsubjective is to bash this everywhere. I deliberation we were truly amazed astir each large metropolis successful the US was connected this list. And I deliberation the different portion of it excessively is the Trump administration. Leah mentioned DOGE. This happened with DOGE too, is they similar to determination arsenic rapidly and arsenic softly arsenic they tin due to the fact that they are betting that courts and legislators and journalists can't support up. So it was important to america present arsenic it was past to support up and to marque that accountability to the grade we tin disposable for people.

Leah Feiger: Yeah, I'm truly frightened for the state to beryllium wholly clear. This was really, truly scary accusation to larn and publish, but I'm not frightened to support doing this reporting. I deliberation it's vitally important, and I'm honestly conscionable everlastingly impressed by our colleagues astatine newsrooms astir the state that are publishing each azygous day, unthinkable reporting connected warehouse locations, the conditions of these warehouses, radical being held successful San Antonio and each implicit the country. There's truthful overmuch retired there, and it's been precise awesome to spot the full Press Corps arsenic good arsenic observers successful Minneapolis and extracurricular truly each treble down connected this arsenic well.

Zoë Schiffer: OK, it's clip for our WIRED/TIRED segment. Whatever is caller and chill is WIRED. Whatever is passé is TIRED. Are we ready, team? I'm truthful ready.

Brian Barrett: I'm benignant of ready. So Leah, spell first.

Leah Feiger: Leah. OK, you go. Hear maine out. This is not the aboriginal that WIRED has promised readers, but I deliberation that it's really, truly important. Nonetheless, my WIRED is Jeopardy the show. Fantastic show. I emotion it. I'm learning caller facts each azygous day. I'm becoming a dedicated Jeopardy spectator erstwhile more. The past clip I watched it similar this, I deliberation was successful precocious school. I'm loving it. I'm really, truly loving it, particularly due to the fact that there's truthful galore categories that are not things that I needfully attraction about, but I americium learning astir them. And the crushed that I chose this, my WIRED this week. My TIRED is my algorithm. I'm really, truly implicit it, you guys. I consciousness similar my algorithm is Cavalier King Charles dogs, emotion them. That is my dog. Fantastic. It's scuba diving. Love it. It's fantastic. And past it's immoderate benignant of aggravated authorities worldly each erstwhile successful a while, but mostly conspiracy theories, these are each things that I really truly bash bask successful each parts of my life, but it's becoming mode excessively overmuch to the constituent that I've conscionable realized I'm not really scrolling astir arsenic overmuch arsenic I utilized to. So bored of it. It's similar I'm not getting the caller info. I don't consciousness similar I'm stretching. I don't consciousness similar worldly is being presented to maine that I don't already cognize oregon person a precise heavy involvement in, which is wherefore Jeopardy has been truthful fun. One of the topics precocious was astir this graveyard wherever celebrated radical are, and it was everyone conscionable had a say, what celebrated person. I loved that I hadn't heard of fractional of them. I spent a batch of clip connected Wikipedia.

Brian Barrett: Love that. This is great.

Leah Feiger: I truly loved it. Anyway, that's me.

Zoë Schiffer: Did you cognize that my erstwhile mathematics tutor from Kumon—dark clip successful my life—but helium was connected Jeopardy and I deliberation helium did beauteous well. He wears a fez each the time, each azygous day.

Leah Feiger: That full condemnation was truthful good.

Brian Barrett: And it's a batch to instrumentality in. And I'm going to instrumentality a infinitesimal conscionable to process each of it.

Zoë Schiffer: I deliberation you should deliberation astir that. That's each I cognize astir Jeopardy. That's each I tin ask. Wow.

Brian Barrett: Love it. I'll say, Leah, I afloat cosigned. I don't cognize if—you some weren't here—I was WIRED's Chief Jeopardy analogous for a fewer glorious months—

Leah Feiger: No, what?

Brian Barrett: —during James Holzhauer's record-breaking, paradigm-defining run.

Leah Feiger: Exciting.

Brian Barrett: I got to interrogation Ken Jennings.

Leah Feiger: That's truly cool.

Brian Barrett: It was great. Loved it.

Leah Feiger: That's truthful cool.

Brian Barrett: So I afloat enactment this clasp of Jeopardy.

Leah Feiger: Ken's a large host, by the way. I don't cognize if you've like—

Brian Barrett: Oh he’s terrific. Yeah, he’s amazing.

Leah Feiger: I'm really, truly enjoying his work.

Brian Barrett: My WIRED is not dissimilar to Leah successful a sense. It is for the Olympics, particularly linear television. And fto maine explain. I deliberation the past clip the Olympics were around, I've got Peacock and I've got YouTube TV, and you present person the enactment to ticker everything successful its entirety whenever you want, and conscionable take which athletics you privation and spell in. And it is excessively much, adjacent for me, an avowed Olympics fan. So I'm embracing conscionable being capable to beryllium down with my kids astatine nighttime and conscionable ticker immoderate NBC thinks I should cognize from that day. And conscionable I get the highlights. I get the champion things. I don't walk 2 hours watching immoderate transverse state contention conscionable successful lawsuit thing absorbing happens. I cognize that erstwhile I'm settled in, it has been editorially curated to beryllium of involvement to me. So that is WIRED for me. And I conjecture TIRED would beryllium the flip of that, of conscionable mindlessly binging wintertime sports that don't spell anywhere.

Zoë Schiffer: Sure.

Leah Feiger: Zoë concurs.

Zoë Schiffer: Yeah, for sure. OK. Mine feels a small evident this week—but I'm conscionable going to persevere—which is, TIRED to maine is those services that nonstop you boxes of apparel and you rent them and past nonstop them back?

Leah Feiger: Yes. OK. Yeah. Rent the Runway, Newly—wait, are you a subscriber?

Zoë Schiffer: Absolutely not.

Leah Feiger: No. I was astir to shocked. My full satellite was going to beryllium rocked.

Zoë Schiffer: No, I would never. I would never. But I really bash person a fewer radical successful my beingness who are conscionable busy, mean professionals who are like, they truly similar them.

Leah Feiger: Yeah. Oh yeah. I person truthful galore who emotion it. They emotion it.

Zoë Schiffer: And I deliberation that's a immense bummer. And I was successful Portland past play and I went to immoderate of the champion vintage stores I person ever been to. I was successful implicit heaven. Shout retired to Deep Lake. They had vintage Vivian Westwood. I got a velvet skirt that I volition ne'er person an accidental to wear.

Leah Feiger: Wait, is that wherever you got your vest you were wearing yesterday? I loved that vest also.

Zoë Schiffer: Yes.

Leah Feiger: I knew it. I was going to inquire astir it, and I meant to—such a bully vest.

Zoë Schiffer: I know, I was viciously mocked successful the office, and I thought, lone Leah understands this.

Brian Barrett: I did not announcement the vest. I would not person asked astir the vest.Sorry

Leah Feiger: I emotion the vest. I emotion the vest capable that I thought astir it aft and was virtually like, I'm going to inquire her wherever it's from. It's surely not disposable to me.

Zoë Schiffer: Love that for us.

That's our amusement for today. We'll nexus to each the stories we spoke astir successful the amusement notes. Uncanny Valley is produced by Kaleidoscope Content. Adriana Tapia and Tyler Hill produced this episode. Mixing from Amar Lal astatine Macro Sound. Fact checking from Matt Giles. Mark Leyda was our San Francisco workplace engineer. Pran Bandi is our New York workplace engineer. Kate Osborn is our enforcement producer. And Katie Drummond is WIRED's Global Editorial Director.

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