Pope Francis says "the globalization of indifference is a very ugly disease"

Pope Francis: The 60 Minutes Interview

Pope Francis: The 60 Minutes Interview 14:25

Editor's Note: In May 2024, Pope Francis spoke with 60 Minutes, answering questions astir planetary conflicts successful Ukraine and Gaza, migrants successful the U.S., surrogate motherhood, and more. The pope died connected Monday astatine the property of 88.

---

This is an updated mentation of a communicative archetypal published connected May 19, 2024. The archetypal video tin beryllium viewed here. 

---

Francis is the archetypal pope from the Americas, the archetypal of his name, and much than immoderate different pope successful caller memory, has dedicated his beingness and ministry to the poor, the peripheral, and the forgotten.  All portion starring the Catholic Church connected difficult, sometimes arguable issues successful a mode that not everyone supports. This past spring, Norah o'Donnell was granted a historical interrogation and spoke to him, successful his autochthonal Spanish, done a translator, for much than an hour.  Not mislaid successful translation was the 88 twelvemonth old's warmth, quality and conviction. The interrogation began with a treatment of the church's archetypal World Children's Day, erstwhile successful precocious May, Pope Francis welcomed tens of thousands of young radical to the Vatican, including refugees of war.

Norah O'Donnell: During World Children's Day, the U.N. says implicit a cardinal radical volition beryllium facing famine successful Gaza, galore of them children. 

Pope Francis (In Spanish/English translation): Not conscionable successful Gaza. Think of Ukraine. Many kids from Ukraine travel here. You cognize something? That those children don't cognize however to smile? I'll accidental thing to them (mimics smile)… they person forgotten however to smile. And that is precise painful.

Norah O'Donnell: Do you person a connection for Vladimir Putin erstwhile it comes to Ukraine?

Pope Francis (In Spanish/English translation): Please, warring countries, each of them, stop. Stop the war. You indispensable find a mode of negotiating for peace. Strive for peace. A negotiated bid is ever amended than an endless war. 

Pope Francis and Norah O'Donnell 60 Minutes

Norah O'Donnell: What's happening-- successful Israel and Gaza, has caused truthful overmuch division, truthful overmuch symptom astir the world. I don't cognize if you've seen successful the United States, large protests connected assemblage campuses and increasing antisemitism. What would you accidental astir however to alteration that?

Pope Francis (In Spanish/English translation): All ideology is bad, and antisemitism is an ideology, and it is bad. Any "anti" is ever bad. You tin knock 1 authorities oregon another, the authorities of Israel, the Palestinian government. You tin knock each you want, but not "anti" a people. Neither anti-Palestinian nor antisemitic. No.

Norah O'Donnell: I cognize you telephone for peace. You person called for a cease-fire successful galore of your sermons. Can you assistance negociate peace?

Pope Francis (In Spanish/English translation): (sighs) What I tin bash is pray. I commune a batch for peace. And also, to suggest, "Please, stop. Negotiate."

Prayer has been astatine the halfway of the pope's beingness since helium was calved Jorge Mario Bergoglio successful Argentina, successful 1936, into a household of Italian immigrants. Before entering the seminary, Bergoglio worked arsenic a chemist.

His ain idiosyncratic look is simplicity. He inactive wears the plain metallic transverse helium wore arsenic the archbishop of Buenos Aires. Though it's not what Francis wears, but wherever helium lives that acceptable the code for his papacy, 11 years ago.  

Instead of a palace supra St. Peter's Square, helium chose the Vatican impermanent location Casa Santa Marta arsenic his home. 

We met him determination nether a coating of the Virgin Mary. Surrounded by the sacred, Francis has not forsaken his consciousness of humor, adjacent erstwhile discussing superior subjects, similar the migrant crisis.

Norah O'Donnell: My grandparents were Catholic. Immigrated from Northern Ireland successful the 1930s to the United States, seeking a amended life. And I cognize your family, too, fled fascism. And you person talked astir with migrants, galore of them children, that you promote governments to physique bridges, not walls.

Pope Francis (In Spanish/English translation): Migration is thing that makes a state grow. They accidental that you Irish migrated and brought the whiskey, and that the Italians migrated and brought the mafia… (laugh) It's a joke. Don't instrumentality it badly. But, migrants sometimes endure a lot. They endure a lot.

Pope Francis and Norah O'Donnell 60 Minutes

Norah O'Donnell: I grew up successful Texas, and I don't cognize if you've heard, but the authorities of Texas is attempting to unopen down a Catholic foundation connected the borderline with Mexico that offers undocumented migrants humanitarian assistance. What bash you deliberation of that?

Pope Francis (In Spanish/English translation): That is madness. Sheer madness. To adjacent the borderline and permission them there, that is madness. The migrant has to beryllium received. Thereafter you spot however you are going to woody with him. Maybe you person to nonstop him back, I don't know, but each lawsuit ought to beryllium considered humanely. Right? 

A fewer months aft becoming pope, Francis went to a tiny Italian land adjacent Africa, to conscionable migrants fleeing poorness and war.

Norah O'Donnell: Your archetypal travel arsenic Pope was the Island of Lampedusa, wherever you talked astir suffering. And I was truthful struck erstwhile you talked astir the globalization of indifference. What is happening? 

Pope Francis (In Spanish/English translation): Do you privation maine to authorities it plainly? People lavation their hands! There are truthful galore Pontius Pilates connected the escaped retired there… who spot what is happening, the wars, the injustice, the crimes… "That's OK, that's OK" and lavation their hands. It's indifference. That is what happens erstwhile the bosom hardens… and becomes indifferent. Please, we person to get our hearts to consciousness again. We cannot stay indifferent successful the look of specified quality dramas. The globalization of indifference is simply a precise disfigured disease. Very ugly.

Pope Francis has not been indifferent to the Church's astir insidious scandal– the rampant intersexual maltreatment of hundreds of thousands of children worldwide, for decades.  

Norah O'Donnell: You person done much than anyone to effort and betterment the Catholic Church and repent for years of unspeakable intersexual maltreatment against children by members of the clergy. But has the religion done enough?

Pope Francis (In Spanish/English translation): It indispensable proceed to bash more. Unfortunately, the calamity of the abuses is enormous. And against this, an upright conscience and not lone to not licence it but to enactment successful spot the conditions truthful that it does not happen.

Pope Francis 60 Minutes

Norah O'Donnell: You person said zero tolerance.

Pope Francis (In Spanish/English translation): It cannot beryllium tolerated. When determination is simply a lawsuit of a spiritual antheral oregon pistillate who abuses, the afloat unit of the instrumentality falls upon them. In this determination has been a large woody of progress.

A fewer weeks aft we interviewed the pope, it was reported that helium utilized a homophobic slur successful 2 backstage meetings. It was a precise nationalist controversy. 

Still, it's Francis's capableness for forgiveness and openness that has defined his enactment of the church's astir 1.4 cardinal Catholics. He enactment them and the satellite connected notice, during an impromptu press league connected a plane in 2013, erstwhile helium spoke much broadly connected the taxable of homosexuality.

"If idiosyncratic is gay," helium said, "and helium searches for the Lord and has bully will…who americium I to judge?" 

… and helium did not halt there.

Norah O'Donnell: Last twelvemonth you decided to let Catholic priests to bless same-sex couples. That's a large change. Why?

Pope Francis (In Spanish/English translation): No, what I allowed was not to bless the union. That cannot beryllium done due to the fact that that is not the sacrament. I cannot. The Lord made it that way. But to bless each person, yes. The blessing is for everyone. For everyone. To bless a homosexual-type union, however, goes against the fixed right, against the instrumentality of the Church. But to bless each person, wherefore not? The blessing is for all. Some radical were scandalized by this. But why? Everyone! Everyone!

Norah O'Donnell: You person said, "Who americium I to judge?" "Homosexuality is not a crime."

Pope Francis (In Spanish/English translation): No. It is simply a quality fact. 

Norah O'Donnell: There are blimpish bishops successful the United States that reason your caller efforts to revisit teachings and traditions. How bash you code their criticism?

Pope Francis (In Spanish/English translation): You utilized an adjective, "conservative." That is, blimpish is 1 who clings to thing and does not privation to spot beyond that. It is simply a suicidal attitude. Because 1 happening is to instrumentality contented into account, to see situations from the past, but rather different is to beryllium closed up wrong a dogmatic box. 

Pope Francis has placed much women successful positions of powerfulness than immoderate of his predecessors, but helium told america helium opposes allowing women to beryllium ordained arsenic priests oregon deacons.

Pope Francis 60 Minutes

Francis' devotion to accepted doctrine led 1 Vatican newsman to enactment that he's changed the tune of the Church, but the lyrics fundamentally stay the same. This frustrates those who privation to spot him alteration argumentation connected Roman Catholic priests marrying; contraception, and surrogate motherhood.  

Norah O'Donnell: I cognize women who are crab survivors who cannot carnivore children, and they crook to surrogacy. This is against religion doctrine.

Pope Francis (In Spanish/English translation): In respect to surrogate motherhood, successful the strictest consciousness of the term, no, it is not authorized. Sometimes surrogacy has go a business, and that is precise bad. It is precise bad.

Norah O'Donnell: But sometimes for immoderate women it is the lone hope.

Pope Francis (In Spanish/English translation): It could be. The different anticipation is adoption. I would accidental that successful each lawsuit the concern should beryllium cautiously and intelligibly considered, consulting medically and past morally arsenic well. I deliberation determination is simply a wide regularisation successful these cases, but you person to spell into each lawsuit successful peculiar to measure the situation, arsenic agelong arsenic the motivation rule is not skirted. But you are right. I privation to archer you that I truly liked your look erstwhile you told me, "In immoderate cases it is the lone chance." It shows that you consciousness these things precise deeply. Thank you. (smiles)

Norah O'Donnell: I deliberation that's wherefore truthful galore people-- person recovered anticipation with you, due to the fact that you person been much unfastened and accepting possibly than different erstwhile leaders of the church.

Pope Francis (In Spanish/English translation): You person to beryllium unfastened to everything. The Church is similar that: Everyone, everyone, everyone. "That so-and-so is simply a sinner…?" Me too, I americium a sinner. Everyone! The Gospel is for everyone. If the Church places a customs serviceman astatine the door, that is nary longer the religion of Christ. Everyone.

Norah O'Donnell: When you look astatine the satellite what gives you hope?

Pope Francis (In Spanish/English translation): Everything. You spot tragedies, but you besides spot truthful galore beauteous things. You spot heroic mothers, heroic men, men who person hopes and dreams, women who look to the future? That gives maine a batch of hope. People privation to live. People forge ahead. And radical are fundamentally GOOD. We are each fundamentally good. Sometimes we are a small mischievous, sinners, but the bosom is good.

Produced by Keith Sharman, Julie Morse and Anna Matranga. Associate producer, Roxanne Feitel. Broadcast associates, Eliza Costas and Callie Teitelbaum. Edited by Jorge J. García.

In:
• Pope Francis
• Vatican City
• Catholic Church