Inside the Exclusive Nathan Fielder Interview

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This week, Brian Barrett and Leah Feiger talk with WIRED planetary editorial manager Katie Drummond to spell down the scenes of her viral interrogation with Nathan Fielder astir his latest documentary, You Can See Everything. She tells america wherefore she had to support it a secret—and however it felt to interrogation a antheral who hates being interviewed. We besides sermon wherefore tech billionaires are feeling generous each of a sudden, from Anthropic’s pledge to perpetrate 5 percent of its shares to a nationalist payment money to Elon Musk’s committedness to springiness a SpaceX stock to each kid successful America. Plus, a WIRED probe recovered that predetermination offices successful astatine slightest 32 states received suspicious letters, immoderate containing achromatic powder, conscionable 2 weeks earlier the midterms.

You tin travel Brian Barrett connected Bluesky astatine @brbarrett, Katie Drummond connected Bluesky astatine @katie-drummond, and Leah Feiger connected Bluesky astatine @leahfeiger. Write to america astatine [email protected].

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Transcript

Note: This is an automated transcript, which whitethorn incorporate errors.

Brian Barrett: Well, invited to WIRED's Uncanny Valley. I'm Brian Barrett, enforcement editor.

Leah Feiger: And I'm Leah Feiger, manager of authorities and science. This week, we're diving into the down the scenes of our interrogation with Nathan Fielder. WIRED's planetary editorial director, Katie Drummond, was among a tiny radical of radical who saw Fielder's latest documentary, You Can See Everything, mode earlier its release. She spoke with Fielder astatine magnitude and volition beryllium joining america to stock what stayed with her aft their interview.

Brian Barrett: We'll besides get into Anthropic and Elon Musk pledging to stock their riches with the public. Anthropic announced that it would perpetrate 5 percent of institution shares to a nationalist payment fund, and Musk followed suit by promising helium would springiness 1 SpaceX stock to each kid successful America. We'll sermon the motivations down these pledges and the chances that they'll really happen?

Leah Feiger: And we're besides going to instrumentality a look astatine the harassment run that has deed predetermination offices crossed the state conscionable 2 weeks earlier the midterms. A WIRED probe recovered that predetermination offices successful at slightest 32 states person received suspicious letters, immoderate of them containing achromatic powder. We'll speech done what happened and however predetermination officials are responding.

Brian Barrett: If you've been online this past week, chances are you've heard astir Nathan Fielder and co-director Lance Oppenheim's latest documentary, You Can See Everything. The documentary follows Fielder, a postgraduate of Canada's apical concern schools, amusive fact, arsenic helium spends a period wrong Elizabeth Holmes' location successful the weeks earlier she went to prison. Holmes was convicted backmost successful 2022 for defrauding investors with Theranos, her humor investigating startup. Turns retired the speedy and close humor tests were fake. Innovative tech didn't really exist. More importantly, though, the movie was kept concealed for 3 years. Only a fewer twelve radical saw it earlier it debuted astatine the Telluride Film Festival. One of those people, WIRED's planetary editorial director, Katie Drummond. She had signed an NDA to perceive what the movie was about, got Nathan Fielder to beryllium connected WIRED's cover, and sat down with him for astir an hr and a half. Katie, convey you for joining us.

Katie Drummond: What a fantastic introduction. You made maine dependable truthful special. Thank you, Brian. I'm truthful blessed to beryllium here.

Brian Barrett: Yeah, I'm besides excited genuinely due to the fact that this is, I think, our archetypal Uncanny Valley crossover episode?

Katie Drummond: It is.

Leah Feiger: Katie, what were your archetypal thoughts erstwhile Fielder's publicist reached out? Tell america everything.

Katie Drummond: I'll archer you. You tin perceive everything. I was connected my mode to meal with a precise bully person and I was successful an Uber and I got an email from him that said, "Do you person a fewer minutes to speech astir Nathan Fielder?" And if you cognize maine astatine each and my sensation successful drama and the benignant of TV I watch, you would cognize that I person galore minutes to speech astir Nathan Fielder and I would speech astir Nathan Fielder anytime. I'm genuinely a large fan. I deliberation his worldly is so, truthful superb and truthful clever and ... I don't privation to accidental genius due to the fact that I conscionable deliberation that's a measurement excessively far, but I deliberation it's very, precise good. I'm a large fan. So I wrote backmost and said, "I person each the clip successful the world." And we talked that night, and helium conscionable said, "Nathan has this task coming out. Only a fewer twelve radical cognize what it is. And I can't archer you thing other astir it until you hold to motion an NDA, but would you beryllium funny successful him for a cover, and bash you person a screen that you could enactment him connected this fall?" And to beryllium honest, I had nary thought if we had a screen that we could enactment him connected this fall. I couldn't adjacent retrieve if we had different people contented coming retired this year. But I was conscionable like, "Yes, of course. We wholly person a cover." I lied and past instantly texted Reyhan, who runs the people magazine, and was like, "Do we person a screen disposable this fall?" And past it turned retired that we did, and I signed an NDA, and she signed an NDA arsenic well. And lone aft we signed the NDAs did they adjacent accidental it's a movie. I thought it could person been anything. That's however small they were consenting to stock with america until we agreed not to speech astir it.

Leah Feiger: Were you hesitant astatine all? Could this person been a bit?

Katie Drummond: There were times erstwhile I was benignant of like, "Are we someway being incorporated into the joke?" When they did The Rehearsal play 2 ... I don't cognize if listeners person seen it. If you haven't, you should. I deliberation it's incredible. But Nathan did this CNN quality with Wolf Blitzer …

Wolf Blitzer, archival audio: Here with america now, comedian, 737 pilot, and big of The Rehearsal, Nathan Fielder.

Katie Drummond: ... wherever helium precise earnestly talked astir aviation information successful a mode that I deliberation CNN was blessed with, but if I, successful my relation moving WIRED, if that happened to me, I don't cognize that I would beryllium blessed astir being portion of the joke. So I decidedly disquieted astir that. But erstwhile we saw the movie and talked to them much astir what they wanted to do, it was beauteous wide that this was conscionable a bully faith, earnest effort to get Nathan to bash immoderate press, which helium does not often do.

Brian Barrett: It wasn't a bit, turned retired to beryllium a existent interview, but 1 happening I thought was truly absorbing astir it was helium turned the tables connected you astatine immoderate point. It felt similar helium started trying to interrogation you. And I guess, what was that similar successful the infinitesimal and were you ... You benignant of drawback yourself. It's benignant of a amusive moment, I think, successful the interview. You say, "Wait a minute, you derailed me. That was rude." What was it similar really trying to interrogation idiosyncratic who was truthful utilized to being connected the different extremity of it?

Katie Drummond: It was a pugnacious interview. He was precise pleasant. He was wholly lovely, and it was a precise bully religion conversation. But helium doesn't similar being interviewed. I mean, helium says that successful the interview. He says, "I hatred this. I hatred that this is happening to maine close now."

Brian Barrett: Relatable.

Katie Drummond: Yes. I deliberation helium genuinely doesn't consciousness precise comfy expressing himself with words. I deliberation helium has talked earlier successful interviews astir however that is simply a existent weakness for him, and truthful I deliberation helium feels uncomfortable trying to bash it. And I deliberation helium did not privation to stock his feelings astir what helium experienced making the movie due to the fact that helium didn't privation that to pass the sentiment of idiosyncratic going successful to spot the movie. If they deliberation like, "Well, Nathan thought this astir Elizabeth and helium thought this astir Elizabeth's spouse and helium thought this and this astir Theranos," helium didn't privation that to colour however radical saw the movie, and truthful helium felt overmuch much comfy asking maine questions astir what I thought astir the movie. And I deliberation genuinely helium is inactive trying to fig retired what happened to him successful the 3 years that helium was making it, and asking radical what they thought is adjuvant for him.

Leah Feiger: And I accidental this is simply a bully clip to accidental for each of our listeners that if you haven't seen the movie yet, there's nary spoilers successful this interview. Both of you did a truly bully occupation of skating astir that. But you did speech astir seeing the movie doubly and having antithetic reactions each time. Your speech with him, arsenic spoiler-free arsenic it was, arsenic hard arsenic it was to support him connected track, to get him to stock his ain viewpoints here, did it alteration astatine each however you saw the film?

Katie Drummond: Oh, that's interesting. The speech and past speechmaking the interrogation back, which I had to bash galore times arsenic we edited it and got it acceptable to people it, and past looking astatine the questions I asked him and reasoning astir wherefore I asked definite questions successful the infinitesimal did marque maine bespeak connected the movie more. There was 1 happening I said to him successful the interrogation wherever I said, "We don't truly know, Nathan, what you are reasoning successful the movie and however you consciousness astir these people." And past I thought much astir that afterwards and disagreed with myself successful the extremity wherever I'm like, no, it really is beauteous wide successful his facial expressions oregon however helium talks to people, oregon adjacent knowing that helium was a co-director connected the film. So helium made decisions astir what they included and what they didn't see and however they framework and acceptable up definite subjects. So evidently with each of those things combined, we bash get a consciousness of what his constituent of presumption is. You tin archer what the filmmaker's constituent of presumption is to immoderate grade arsenic you're watching the movie. So it did marque maine deliberation a batch astir the film. I mean, I volition accidental I person thought mode excessively overmuch astir this movie conscionable due to the fact that I've been getting acceptable for this interview, doing the interview, editing the interview, getting acceptable to people it. I americium acceptable to halt reasoning astir it. I would similar that to happen.

Leah Feiger: This is your beingness now.

Katie Drummond: I anticipation not.

Brian Barrett: I was going to say, but Katie, the interview's gotten a batch of attraction since it published. You've gotten a batch of attraction since it published for the interview. What's it been like? I deliberation arsenic journalists, the adage is you don't privation to go the story, not that you've go the communicative here, but I consciousness similar there's been a batch of demands connected your time. You've been connected TBPN, a lifelong extremity of yours. You're connected Uncanny Valley, different lifelong goal. What has it been similar processing being wrapped up successful this benignant of motor of attraction that the documentary's been getting?

Katie Drummond: I pivoted from being a newsman to being an exertion for precisely this reason, which is that I truly didn't similar getting attraction connected the internet. I recovered it precise unpleasant. I proceed to find it unpleasant. So successful that regard, I don't similar it. I similar to speech to commenters and benignant of respond to bully religion things, but past you also, it's 8:30 astatine nighttime and you're connected Reddit and you work a thread, and radical are like, "This is immoderate of the worst penning I've ever seen," and you're like, "Oh, wow, OK. That idiosyncratic doesn't similar me," and that's hard. I deliberation I conscionable privation to hopefully genuinely promote radical to spot the movie. And I don't mean that due to the fact that I'm being paid to bash an advertisement for them; I'm surely not. It's conscionable a truly absorbing project. And truthful I'm conscionable truly arrogant that we were capable to play a teeny tiny portion successful it. If I could wide up 1 happening that has generated immoderate nationalist attraction since the interrogation came retired is that my Google hunt results present thin heavy toward Katie Drummond felon, Katie Drummond criminal, Katie Drummond conviction. I conscionable privation to beryllium precise clear, it tin beryllium hard to work code successful penning sometimes, that was a joke.

Brian Barrett: But successful the eyes of AI overviews, you are everlastingly a felon.

Katie Drummond: And that's however this movie ruined my career. Yeah. Yep.

Leah Feiger: That's truly the taxable line. Not lone did you merchandise this interview, WIRED released a slate of stories related to Nathan Fielder. And successful 1 piece, erstwhile WIRED editor, Adam Rogers, discusses however the mag was one of truly the archetypal outlets backmost successful the aboriginal 2010s to praise Theranos, to springiness them each of this nationalist attention. So there's this existent reckoning that happens successful that story. I'm truly curious, I would emotion to perceive from you astir the decisions that went into adjacent publicizing this mistake and this intelligibly new, this part betwixt aged epoch and caller era.

Katie Drummond: Yeah. When I work Adam's story, I work a draught of it past week, I was truthful blown away. I mean, if anyone listening hasn't work it, it's specified a large portion of penning and it's specified a crisp reckoning with the editorial decisions that were made astir that interview. I would conscionable say, I deliberation that that portion and this movie accidental a batch astir wherever WIRED is successful this moment. And determination were truthful galore truly astute radical who worked astatine WIRED successful that era. It's not similar this was a clump of dumb radical making dumb decisions. It was truly astute radical making truly astute decisions. But they existed and WIRED operated successful this discourse wherever adjacent successful benignant of the aboriginal 2010s, arsenic a batch of contention was starting to look astir these tech companies and the emergence of societal media and the ills that came with that, determination was inactive overmuch much a civilization of celebrating and lionizing startup founders and truly chaotic emerging ideas, possibly not giving them the scrutiny that they ought to person had. I deliberation Liz Holmes played into that truly effectively. I deliberation that her comparative younker and her sex were important factors there, that the media loved the thought of a young pistillate becoming this self-made billionaire with this unthinkable innovation successful personalized medicine. I deliberation that the writer who did that interrogation successful 2014 asked Liz hard questions. Didn't needfully get satisfying answers, but I deliberation that, arsenic Adam points out, the WIRED of contiguous would've asked overmuch tougher questions oregon would've adjacent had a overmuch higher barroom to screen Theranos to statesman with. I don't cognize that we needfully would've looked astatine this startup that hadn't really made galore inroads into commercializing their merchandise and said, "Yeah, that feels similar thing we should bash a consecutive interrogation on." I don't cognize that we would've adjacent made that decision. So I conscionable think, again, it was truly astute radical making astute decisions wrong the discourse that they were operating astatine the time, but I deliberation that discourse has truly changed. And I deliberation there's a batch much indispensable skepticism of these radical and their ideas and wherever this wealth is coming from and however and wherefore they're getting that wealth to statesman with and what they're doing with it.

Brian Barrett: Katie, convey you truthful overmuch for being here.

Katie Drummond: Thank you guys.

Brian Barrett: Shifting gears to existent tech companies, immoderate of them person been connected a philanthropic streak of sorts. On Sunday, Anthropic said it would perpetrate 5 percent of its shares to a nationalist payment money meant to code AI's interaction connected the labour market. A time later, Elon Musk, not wanting to beryllium near retired apparently, posted connected X that adjacent twelvemonth he's going to springiness 1 SpaceX stock to each kid successful America and that this volition beryllium the archetypal of many. Both announcements don't incorporate overmuch item connected however this volition really happen, you'll beryllium shocked to hear. According to Anthropic's statement, though, the money could marque charitable donations oregon nonstop wealth to "specific populations." We emotion a circumstantial population. Musk gave nary further details for his plan, but that didn't halt President Trump from publically thanking him. Leah, are you excited for each the shares successful AI companies that you and aboriginal generations of America are going to get?

Leah Feiger: I can't wait, Brian. I mean, I've conscionable been bated enactment for this to happen. I person truthful galore thoughts astir this, and I'm definite that you bash arsenic well. The thought of tech companies utilizing wealthiness for nationalist bully has been an ongoing speech for literal decades, and it's stalled successful caller years. It conscionable 100 percent has. Elon Musk, the richest antheral successful the world, famously is anti-philanthropy, which is precise new, to beryllium clear, from tech of adjacent a decennary agone that astatine the precise slightest you had Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, you had an outpour of enactment for the clime corners of the tech manufacture and dumping wealth into that. That's each dried up, and I'm not honestly definite that we've spent capable clip talking astir that. A batch of these companies person benignant of relied connected the affirmative property from their forebearers virtually 15 years ago. And truthful the thought that there's present this full philanthropic streak of, arsenic you said, sorts is of note. It's the thought that like, oh, OK, we're really that unpopular that we request to measurement successful to immoderate respect. We're going to instrumentality your jobs, but we're going to present money the circumstantial populations, question mark, whose jobs were taken? I person truthful galore questions here.

Brian Barrett: No, that's the thing. And I deliberation we tin benignant of disambiguate the Musk happening from the Anthropic happening due to the fact that the Musk thing, A, Elon Musk makes truthful galore promises, and who knows—

Leah Feiger: Oh my god, yeah. That doesn't adjacent number to me. The information that radical were sharing it credulously ... I'm sorry, Natasha Lyonne, get a grip. This is intelligibly not occurring.

Brian Barrett: And adjacent if helium does, it is simply a batch of money, successful fairness. It's $10 cardinal oregon truthful based connected the existent banal price. But it's 0.5 percent of wide SpaceX stock—

Leah Feiger: And it's not happening. It's conscionable not happening.

Brian Barrett: Yeah. And adjacent if it did, it would beryllium 150 bucks successful everybody's account, which it's not going to marque anybody rich. It's fine. So acceptable that speech for a moment. But let's speech astir Anthropic due to the fact that I bash think, to your point, it's philanthropy, but it's philanthropy calved of this consciousness that we're going to marque each the jobs spell away, truthful ... It is really, we're going to benignant of commencement making immoderate inroads toward cosmopolitan basal income. But it's UBI arsenic dictated by Anthropic. It's the consciousness of, "We're going to beryllium the ones to fig retired not lone however AI is going to reshape society, but we're going to beryllium the ones liable for past making definite everybody's OK." The amount of power that they're trying to put successful themselves is truly astonishing.

Leah Feiger: We unrecorded successful an unregulated hellhole. Put it connected a T-shirt. Look, Anthropic is preparing for a trillion-dollar IPO close now. And I know, it's me, truthful I person to accidental it, the midterms are successful 2 weeks. All anyone is talking astir successful astatine slightest a information of these polls is information centers, however unpopular they are, however unpopular AI is. The usage of AI is simply a bipartisan contented astatine this point, which is fascinating. We should truly beryllium talking astir however awesome it is that these monolithic companies person made truthful galore radical hatred them truthful quickly. So it's each this timing, each of these, "Don't look astatine the antheral down the curtain," facade that I conscionable can't get over.

Brian Barrett: One happening that's benignant of amusive present ... I can't instrumentality recognition for this observation. This was Matt Levine successful Money Stuff successful Bloomberg. But helium made this constituent that I deliberation is truly apt, which is that the ways successful which this wealth is being projected to beryllium distributed truly reflects each company's oregon individual's consciousness of self. So you've got Anthropic, arsenic we talked about, "Only we person the power. We're the lone ones liable capable to bash this." You've got Elon Musk, precise idiosyncratic entrepreneurship, "We're going to springiness everybody a small banal and spot wherever it goes." And past you besides had ... We haven't confirmed this independently, but OpenAI reportedly successful July, according to the Financial Times, projected oregon considered giving the US authorities a 5 percent stake, which is benignant of OpenAI saying, "Hey, we'll play ball. We'll enactment with the government. We'll fig this out." All antithetic visions of however AI fits into society, however it relates to government, however it relates to individuals, nary of them astir apt large due to the fact that they each presume this satellite successful which different sources of wealth are not going to beryllium present due to the fact that of AI.

Leah Feiger: No, I deliberation that's honestly a truly astute mode to enactment it, the thought of each of these companies benignant of figuring retired their ain ways to speech astir this, particularly due to the fact that astatine the extremity of the day, with regulatory measures and proposals changing fundamentally hourly astatine this point, the authorities is astir to spell done a beauteous large shift. And careless of what happens successful these elections, Trump is simply a lame duck president. There is simply a precise antithetic consciousness of entreaty that you person to make. Are you inactive promising that 5 percent if you're OpenAI to a Democratic-controlled Congress? I don't know, and I'm precise funny to spot however that volition each benignant of determination around. But to me, it besides conscionable gets into this larger thought of what is the tech world's relation successful philanthropic movements, particularly arsenic they're shutting down their ain interior CSR ailment streams arsenic well. We've seen conscionable implicit the years, implicit the months, truthful overmuch astir conscionable the clime broadside of each of these companies, similar I said, conscionable being truly shifted to the wayside. It's interesting, and to me, it feels similar conscionable specified an evident headline-grab arsenic well.

Brian Barrett: Yeah. And I deliberation to your constituent astir the clime thing, again, going backmost to Anthropic, this is simply a institution wherever a batch of people, not everybody, but a batch of radical are astatine slightest adjacent to effectual altruism, and the priorities of that acceptable of beliefs don't needfully enactment up with what you would see to beryllium accepted philanthropic beliefs. A batch of people, oregon possibly not a lot, immoderate fig of them aren't disquieted astir clime anymore due to the fact that they deliberation AI is going to lick it. Some fig of them, it's been reported, they've started smoking again due to the fact that they deliberation crab volition beryllium a solved problem. There's a batch of assumptions astir each the things that are going to beryllium fixed. And if you are assuming that definite things are going to beryllium fixed, you aren't going to enactment your nationalist payment wealth toward those things. You're going to find different places to enactment them nary substance what the existent authorities of urgency is connected anything.

Leah Feiger: Last week, an authoritative successful the Louisiana Secretary of State's bureau was going done the message erstwhile they opened a missive and a mysterious achromatic powder fell out. The bureau was evacuated. The worker was rushed to the exigency room. They were thankfully not injured, and consequent tests showed that the substance was not harmful. By Wednesday, the bureau was backmost unfastened and running. Bit of a scary story, going a mates of weeks into the election, but the contented present was that it wasn't a one-off. Over the people of the pursuing days, predetermination offices successful much than 31 different states were targeted with akin letters arsenic they prepared for the midterms. Many of those states person made nationalist statements acknowledging the letters, but WIRED's David Gilbert, helium really is the idiosyncratic who broke the afloat grade of however acold this harassment run went. He contacted officials successful each 50 states and DC, and our accounting shows the afloat standard of this run for the precise archetypal time. It's wild. It's really, truly wild. Even if this pulverization was not detrimental, it's precise scary and intelligibly portion of a harassment run for predetermination officials starring into 1 of the astir consequential elections successful US history.

Brian Barrett: Yeah. No, the information ... I mean, large work, David, making truthful galore calls and putting successful the work.

Leah Feiger: Truly.

Brian Barrett: So we had 32 states confirmed receipt of a missive similar this, and we inactive person a fewer who hadn't responded yet, truthful the fig could inactive spell up. And, Leah, I thought it's not needfully Democrat oregon Republican. It's benignant of crossed the board, right?

Leah Feiger: Exactly. The letters besides coincided with akin letters that were sent to legislature offices crossed the state that besides targeted some Democratic and Republican lawmakers. Look, I person to say, hats disconnected to the Postal Service. The immense bulk of the letters were intercepted earlier they reached each of their intended targets. But successful a fig of states, they weren't, and predetermination offices had to get evacuated. These offices, they're successful finals mode close now. This is everything. The clip that it takes to person to grip threats similar this ... And they're besides already handling different threats. Between predetermination denier groups and rumors of ICE astatine the polls, these predetermination officials are already underwater. So the thought that there's this further menace is conscionable wild. The FBI and USPS accidental that they're investigating, but the FBI has not been wide astir whether it has immoderate leads, however galore letters it's identified, thing of that nature.

Brian Barrett: Yeah. Leah, I deliberation it's truly absorbing that predetermination officials are dealing with a batch close now, and this is conscionable 1 much happening to woody with. How bash you spot that, if astatine all, affecting the election? I mean, are you acrophobic about, not conscionable the letters, but erstwhile you instrumentality the totality of the things that are piling up ... Again, we're 2 weeks retired ... however acrophobic are you that thing goes incorrect oregon gets missed oregon goes awry due to the fact that of the unit connected predetermination officials making it harder to bash their occupation than ever?

Leah Feiger: Oh my god, I mean, that's the fear. If you're listening to this podcast and you consciousness comfy going retired to vote, spell vote. But there's a antithetic undercurrent close now, and that's what we're proceeding from NGOs, section activists, predetermination officials, which is it's precise hard to transportation the Get Out to Vote level erstwhile determination person been truthful galore threats. All to say, close now, DHS officials person precocious said they don't program connected sending migration officers en masse to patrol the polls, but everyone's inactive frightened due to the fact that Trump has antecedently said successful the past that that's a possibility, Republicans person antecedently said successful the past that's a possibility. And truthful there's truthful overmuch conflicting statements. It's precise tense. It's precise tense. It's thing that WIRED's tracking closely. The full WIRED authorities squad is precise acceptable to support an oculus connected however each of this unfolds.

Brian Barrett: Do we person immoderate consciousness of the information of the radical who are sending these achromatic pulverization letters? I inquire partially due to the fact that connected Sunday, Utah Lt. Gov. Deidre Henderson posted an representation of an intercepted missive to Threads. Top left-hand country of the missive says that DSA sent it, the Democratic Socialists of America, with the New York zip code. DSA has denied immoderate involvement. I americium not saying ... To beryllium clear, I don't deliberation it was DSA, conscionable to beryllium very, precise clear. But it does look similar an effort to perchance pin it connected DSA. Have we seen thing beyond Utah with that? Have we seen immoderate different attempts to usage this oregon leverage this, oregon is that conscionable benignant of an isolated thing, and truly who knows?

Leah Feiger: It's truthful pugnacious to say. So we haven't seen that connected a larger scale, but for each that the close loves to speech astir false-flag operations, this is simply a literal mendacious flag, and to maine is conscionable truthful intelligibly a mode to promote ... What americium I trying to say? And to me, this is intelligibly specified a mode to promote much splits successful an already precise divided country. And the thought like, "Oh, no, it's the leftists. They're trying to halt the election. See, we've been calling fraud this full time. Oh, no, it was the right," there's truthful galore antithetic ways to instrumentality this, and astatine the extremity of the day, it's astir disunity, which is not caller for American elections. I cognize nary 1 likes to speech astir Russian engagement oregon overseas engagement from elections past, but it's not ... That benignant of involvement, that benignant of disinformation, that benignant of harassment, that seldom had to bash with precise circumstantial motions similar sending ICE to the polls. It had to bash with encouraging radical to hatred each different and pretending that determination was a bigger disagreement than determination was connected a assortment of issues. And truthful I deliberation that we're seeing this play retired again, and of people we are, specifically with these letters and different examples of elector intimidation that are truly concerning.

Brian Barrett: Coming up aft the break, we're sharing our WIRED/TIRED picks for the week. Stay with us.

Leah Feiger: It is clip for our WIRED/TIRED segment. Whatever is caller and chill is wired, and immoderate passé happening we're implicit is tired. Brian, archer maine yours.

Brian Barrett: Leah, you volition astir apt disagree with this, but lone due to the fact that I cognize you bask traveling to different parts of the world, you bask surviving successful different parts of world. You've done it your full life.

Leah Feiger: Sure.

Brian Barrett: But I volition accidental TIRED is moving to different country, say, successful Europe, expecting things to beryllium dramatically amended than they were successful the US successful immoderate ways. I accidental this due to the fact that we ran a large communicative this week from a writer named Sarah Manavis ... I anticipation I americium pronouncing that correctly, Sarah. Apologies if not ... interviewing a clump of expats who fled America due to the fact that of Trump and recovered themselves ... They recovered that Europe was not the idyllic, countryside, cleanable satellite that they thought it would be. Europe's great. I'm not knocking Europe. I'm not knocking moving. But it did see colorful examples specified arsenic idiosyncratic who fled to Poland to debar a far-right authoritarian government. So I conjecture I would accidental tired, much specifically would beryllium bash your probe earlier you determination to different country.

Leah Feiger: Do your research, folks. OK, what's WIRED? What's your WIRED?

Brian Barrett: Wired, I'm going to accidental reviewed the ... Julian Chokkattu, WIRED's cogwheel editor, reviewed the iPhone duo this week. The duo is not my WIRED, but Julian's wallpaper for the duo, which is an adorable Snoopy connected a agleam yellowish background, it made my day. I person looked astatine it similar 10 times today. Every clip I'm feeling down, I conscionable look astatine this representation of Julian's wallpaper and it makes maine consciousness better. So I'm going to accidental that is WIRED.

Leah Feiger: I emotion that. That's beauteous good. I'm going to person to spell cheque that out. OK. My WIRED of this week is the lone mode that I person been avoiding predetermination doom successful 100 percent of my beingness is focusing connected Halloween, which has been truthful fun. This week I americium revisiting immoderate aged favorites, a.k.a. Cher's cult classic, besides outcry retired to Susan Sarandon and Michelle Pfeiffer, The Witches of Eastwick. Highly recommend. Get immoderate Hocus Pocus successful there. There's conscionable a batch of really, truly bully forms of media to revisit.

Brian Barrett: My girl enactment connected “This Is Halloween” from The Nightmare Before Christmas this greeting earlier school. Really got everybody moving.

Leah Feiger: So cute. So cute. There's candy everywhere. This is helping maine retired close now. I'm deeply, profoundly loving it. My bushed is simply a real-life spooky tale. Our information squad astatine wired.com has been doing an unbelievable occupation tracking immoderate precise superior vulnerabilities crossed the internet. They person a mates of large scoops, specifically the PHP Foundation revealed two superior vulnerabilities that could interaction millions of websites. There's been conscionable ... I don't know. What americium I but a authorities and subject person? But it conscionable feels similar determination has been a proliferation of precise scary stories precocious astir vulnerabilities and hacking and the net is nary longer ours. Was it ever? So truly spell cheque retired the information conception truthful you tin person a real-life Halloween experience.

Brian Barrett: And, Leah, successful fairness, you're ever talking astir PHP.

Leah Feiger: I americium ever talking astir PHP.

Brian Barrett: You won't unopen up astir it. So this is your infinitesimal successful a batch of ways.

Leah Feiger: Welcome. That's our amusement for today. This occurrence was produced by Adriana Tapia.

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