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On this "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan" broadcast, moderated by Margaret Brennan:
- Rep. Mike Turner, Republican of Ohio
- Sen. Tammy Duckworth, Democrat of Illinois
- Oksana Markarova, Ukrainian ambassador to the U.S.
- Ret. Lt. Gen. H.R. McMaster
- NPR CEO Katherine Maher and PBS CEO Paula Kerger
Click here to browse afloat transcripts from 2025 of "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan."
MARGARET BRENNAN: I'm Margaret Brennan.
And this week connected Face the Nation: President Trump begins the adjacent signifier of his docket with a unit shakeup. And what does the economical woody betwixt the U.S. and Ukraine mean for the information narration betwixt the 2 countries?
Mike Waltz is retired arsenic nationalist information adviser, and Secretary of State Marco Rubio is in, adding different occupation to his increasing database of responsibilities.
With Trump's propulsion for a atomic woody with Iran and an extremity to Russia's warfare successful Ukraine, we volition inquire Republican Mike Turner astir the interaction of the shuffle. And we volition get insights from 1 of Trump's nationalist information advisers successful his archetypal term, retired Lieutenant General H.R. McMaster.
Plus, Illinois Democratic Senator Tammy Duckworth volition articulation america with an update connected the Armed Services Committee's bipartisan petition for a probe into Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's conduct.
Overnight, a caller onslaught connected Kyiv. We volition get absorption from Ukrainian Ambassador Oksana Markarova.
And, finally, arsenic President Trump seeks to extremity national backing to nationalist broadcasting, we volition inquire NPR CEO Katherine Maher and PBS CEO Paula Kerger however they program to combat back.
It's each conscionable up connected Face the Nation.
Good morning, and invited to Face the Nation.
We person a batch to get to, truthful let's statesman contiguous with Ohio Republican Congressman Mike Turner.
Good to spot you present successful person.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER (R-Ohio): Thanks for having me, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So I person a batch of nationalist information topics to get to you, but astatine the bosom of truthful overmuch is America's economical strength. And truthful I privation to inquire you astir what President Trump said this week astir the cost, the interaction of his China tariffs connected the proviso of goods successful the United States.
Take a listen.
(Begin VT)
DONALD TRUMP (President of the United States): Somebody said, oh, the shelves are going to beryllium open. Well, possibly the children volition person 2 dolls, alternatively of 30 dolls, you know? And possibly the 2 dolls volition outgo a mates of bucks much than they would normally.
(End VT)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do your constituents backmost successful Ohio truly privation to perceive the connection that they request less Christmas presents this year?
He's acknowledging little supply, higher prices.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Well, I deliberation there's going to beryllium a batch that has to beryllium shaken retired here. And we surely are seeing, I think, immoderate absorption present successful China besides that means that the president's extremity is that these nations, that – of which he's putting tariffs connected the array and tariffs, which are a punishment for having behaved poorly, taking vantage of the United States economically, volition travel to the array and negociate amended economical deals than the United States has been experiencing.
Those deals are opening to beryllium offered. The White House is opening to negociate those. China is opening to awesome that they're consenting to travel to the table. So, adjacent though the president is making those statements, astatine the aforesaid time, we're seeing that the president taking that measurement of saying we privation a amended economical woody is opening to work.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But, successful the meantime, China said it whitethorn restrict exports of materials utilized by General Dynamics, which makes tanks, including successful your authorities of Ohio. Are you acrophobic that the commercialized warfare won't conscionable interaction people's purchasing of toys, but preparedness, tanks, and subject readiness?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: I deliberation we're each acrophobic of the effects connected the proviso chain. And surely we person got to marque definite that this works done the full processes and that we are acrophobic connected the effects of the economy.
I deliberation the president's going to beryllium looking astatine that. Congress is going to beryllium looking astatine that. But the existent interest present is that we bash person to look agelong word arsenic to however this protects our wide economy.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, Beijing has not yet launched those talks. We volition beryllium watching for them if they bash get nether way.
Let's get to the different quality of the week, the reshuffling astatine the apical of the nationalist information apparatus. It has agelong been wide determination are divides wrong the medication connected definite topics. Iran is 1 of them. Russia is different 1 of them. Mike Waltz, who you served with, viewed arsenic a accepted Republican hawk.
I accidental this because, erstwhile helium was connected this programme previously, helium laid retired successful beauteous wide presumption that the U.S. extremity successful these negotiations with Iran are dismantlement of its atomic program, not limits connected enrichment, not verification, but those are the things that the envoy negotiating with Iran person said.
We're seeing argumentation differences from wrong the president's ain medication here. Has Congress been fixed details connected what the extremity is and what the program is?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Well, I mean, the extremity is simply stated, that we bash not person a atomic Iran.
And, certainly, the president is leaning powerfully successful that. From his archetypal term, with the maximum unit campaign, the president was wide that, some successful non-nuclear Iran and besides making definite that we person – that the nefarious activities of Iran moving done their proxies, the violent groups and organizations, that that beryllium stopped.
So the president is precise beardown connected an anti-Iran policy, including ensuring that determination not beryllium a atomic Iran.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But the things that his envoy person described dependable a batch similar that 2015 atomic woody negotiated nether President Obama, with limits connected enrichment, for example, and things similar that.
I cognize successful the past you voted for authorities that would springiness Congress much oversight implicit a woody with Iran. Do you expect President Trump to bring immoderate benignant of woody helium brokers to Congress for approval?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Well, I deliberation we person to spot what the woody is.
I mean, currently, there's conscionable ongoing negotiations. We volition person to spot however that evolves. We volition person to spot what those presumption are and truly – well, I…
MARGARET BRENNAN: You don't privation immoderate benignant of reappraisal regardless?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: I mean, arsenic it evolves, we volition person to spot what those presumption are and what – and truly what is achieved.
And, certainly, there's a relation for Congress to play arsenic that goes forward. But I deliberation we request to springiness them the accidental for success.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, the Israeli premier curate issued a connection yesterday denying that helium personally was talking to Mike Waltz astir bombing Iran, subject enactment against Iran. Of course, we cognize his aides could person those conversations.
Is it due enactment for the nationalist information advisor to the president to beryllium coordinating with Israel astir subject enactment against Iran, oregon was Mike Waltz perchance successful the incorrect here?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Well, archetypal off, we don't cognize specifically that that was occurring.
But, astatine the aforesaid time, the National Security Council, the relation of the National Security Council is to guarantee that the president of the United States has the top accusation possible. And Mike Waltz is – has an unthinkable inheritance and experience. He worked diligently to marque definite helium had a beardown relation successful the nationalist information squad of the president.
And I'm surely gladsome that he's going to beryllium retained and staying successful a beardown relation successful this administration. Working straight with satellite leaders and heads of authorities is surely an important relation of – arsenic the nationalist information advisor to the president. And I – certainly, I think, adjacent arsenic U.N. ambassador, helium volition proceed to bash that benignant of function.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is it successful the nationalist information interest, though, to person the caput of state, who besides has, astatine slightest connected paper, 3 different jobs now, successful this role, and for however long?
You're saying however important it is.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Well, I mean, it surely – certainly, we cognize Henry Kissinger has been successful that presumption before.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And adjacent helium said it was untenable.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And adjacent – but helium was successful lockstep with his president.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: I deliberation what's besides precise important present is that Marco Rubio, from a argumentation perspective, is precise beardown successful this administration. His awesome of being successful this presumption sends a awesome of continuing the aforesaid policies successful the administration.
From a Trump squad argumentation perspective, him taking implicit this sends a awesome of continuation and strength. That's excellent.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But the policy…
(CROSSTALK)
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Now we person got to springiness him the accidental of, is helium going to beryllium capable to physique retired the squad successful the National Security Council?
And that's surely anticipation – hopefully that helium volition beryllium capable to bash truthful and physique retired a beardown squad determination that represents truly the accidental to enactment President Trump successful giving him the accusation and cognition and the entree to accusation and cognition that helium needs.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That's a diplomatic mode of saying determination shouldn't beryllium loyalty tests to the president. You privation existent experts staffing National Security Council. You don't privation Laura Loomer, a acold close activist, making decisions connected personnel?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Well, astatine the aforesaid time, determination does person to beryllium loyalty to the president.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Of course, but besides to the Constitution.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: I mean, we saw successful the president's archetypal word that the president was betrayed during the archetypal Trump impeachment by individuals who were astatine the National Security Council.
So Trump personally has an knowing that you person to person radical astatine the National Security Council that are connected Trump's team. And the National Security Council, being – straight moving with him and being successful the White House, it's very, precise important that they beryllium unit that enactment for and connected behalf of the president.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You were talking astir National Security Council members who testified nether oath that the president was withholding assistance to Ukraine during the archetypal medication for a governmental favor.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: And was shown to person wrongly been testified, due to the fact that I was portion of that panel. And they – their grounds was proven not to beryllium accurate, that the president was not tying assistance to Ukraine to the investigation.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, that was the premise of the impeachment.
But your constituent is, that looms ample successful the president's representation and enactment with the National Security Council now. OK.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: The president needs to marque definite that helium has unit that are supportive of him successful the National Security Council and his policies and makes definite that they're providing him information.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: This is the bosom of, what does the president cognize that our adversaries are doing?
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: When he's dealing with Russia and what – and policies with respect to Ukraine, helium needs to cognize what Vladimir Putin is doing. And that's coming straight from the National Security Council.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Noted.
The White House fund was released Friday. It is not the trillion-dollar committedness the president campaigned on. Susan Collins connected Appropriations, Roger Wicker connected the Senate Armed Services Committee says this is not adequate. And, successful fact, helium said: "The volition is to shred to the bony our subject capabilities and enactment to work members."
Do you stock your Republican senators' concerns?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: I deliberation there's much enactment that tin beryllium done connected the nationalist information information of the president's budget.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You would similar to spot much defence spending than the White House is putting forth?
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: I deliberation there's going to beryllium much statement and I deliberation there's much accidental for accrued investment.
We truly request to bash much successful the nationalist information space. There are adversaries that we person that privation to bash America harm, and we request to beryllium strong.
MARGARET BRENNAN: All right, Congressman Turner, convey you for joining us.
REPRESENTATIVE MIKE TURNER: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Face the Nation volition beryllium backmost successful 1 minute. Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we're joined present by Illinois Democratic Senator Tammy Duckworth.
Good to person you present successful person.
SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH (D-Illinois): Thanks for having me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, Senator, I cognize you did ballot to corroborate Secretary Rubio. Do you person assurance that helium tin juggle each 4 of the jobs that helium present has for an indefinite play of time?
SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH: No. There's nary mode helium tin bash that and bash it well, particularly since there's specified incompetence implicit astatine DOD with Pete Hegseth being caput of defense, and conscionable the hollowing retired of the apical leadership.
There's nary mode helium tin transportation each that full load connected his own. And truthful I bash deliberation that they request to find a caller caput of defense. They request to find a caller NSA – caput of NSA arsenic rapidly arsenic possible.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But, astatine this point, we heard from the main of unit that she believes each the Cabinet secretaries volition service a afloat year. What makes you deliberation that Secretary Hegseth could really beryllium dismissed?
SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH: Well, I deliberation helium should beryllium dismissed.
Whether oregon not President Trump's going to disregard him is simply a full antithetic conversation. He should ne'er person been nominated successful the archetypal place. He is the astir untrained, inadequate caput of defence successful our nation's history. And look astatine what he's done astatine the Pentagon. It's successful turmoil.
He mislaid his apical staffers wrong a substance of days. He's present enactment classified accusation an unclassified chain, and he's enactment connected our nation's nationalist information astatine risk.
MARGARET BRENNAN: He says nary warfare plans, wasn't classified, but it was delicate information. That's portion of this ongoing inspector wide probe, arsenic I recognize it, into his conduct.
Do you person immoderate timeline, immoderate consciousness of however earnestly that's being taken and erstwhile the results volition beryllium seen?
SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH: We don't person a timeline. It is precise serious.
Let maine marque it wide what helium did. He enactment into an unclassified Signal concatenation that the craft are going to beryllium implicit a definite constituent successful abstraction astatine a definite constituent successful time. That's classified information. Any basal idiosyncratic getting done subject grooming knows that is classified information.
And helium did it connected a abstracted concatenation with his woman and household members.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I privation to inquire you, due to the fact that you beryllium connected the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, on with Armed Services…
SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH: Armed Services, yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … what you deliberation is going to hap to Mike Waltz, who is present being pushed retired of the NSA relation and into this occupation arsenic ambassador to the United Nations. That's arguably a beauteous important post.
Senate Intel Vice Chairman Mark Warner says it's going to beryllium a brutal hearing. What bash you privation to cognize from him? And are you unfastened to confirming him into the job?
SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH: It volition beryllium a brutal hearing. He's not qualified for the job, conscionable by quality of the information that helium participated successful the Signal chain.
In fact, I deliberation everybody connected that Signal concatenation needs to beryllium fired, due to the fact that not a azygous 1 of them spoke up and said, hey, this is inappropriate. We should beryllium successful a unafraid channel.
And, by the way, what's truly absorbing was that determination was not a azygous uniformed unit connected that Signal chain, which was precise wide that it was purposefully done to support the subject unit with the acquisition disconnected of that Signal chat.
Now, Mike Waltz is doing what we call, helium is failing up, right? He is failing successful his occupation and getting promoted to beryllium ambassador. That's not what our federation needs astatine the United Nations.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Mike Waltz served this state successful a azygous arsenic a Green Beret. He was a lawmaker. You deliberation helium is incompetent, and you're not unfastened to voting for him astatine all?
SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH: I'm not unfastened to voting for him, no, due to the fact that helium – due to the fact that he's already demonstrated he's incapable of doing the astir basal thing, which is handling classified information.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I privation to inquire you astir backing for defence due to the fact that I cognize you person said, successful particular, the Navy needs much wealth and much fiscal enactment close now.
The Republican seat of Appropriations and the Republican seat of Armed Services some saw the White House's fund erstwhile it was released connected Friday…
SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: … and said it freezes subject spending astatine Biden epoch levels, which they reason amounts to a reduction.
Can you enactment unneurotic with your Republican allies to summation defence spending?
SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH: Well, 1 of the places wherever determination has been bipartisanship has been the Armed Services Committee. That has been thing that I person been precise arrogant to beryllium a portion of.
Now, whether oregon not my Republican colleagues proceed to beryllium co-conspirators and collaborators with this medication successful fundamentally gutting the United States authorities is up to them. Right now, their plans are going to necessitate laying disconnected hundreds – astatine slightest 100,000 civilian workers astatine the Pentagon.
It's going to, successful the words of Chairman Wicker, fundamentally – I'm going to paraphrase him – chopped defence capabilities to the bone, I deliberation is however helium enactment it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes, helium did.
SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH: We request to marque definite – the Navy needs much ships. We request much – and the Merchant Mariners request much boats, much ships. We request to marque large investments successful our sixth-generation combatant fleet. We request to marque large investments successful grooming pilots.
We are abbreviated pilots. And yet the cuts that they're proposing successful bid to money a vanity task similar the Golden Dome does not assistance marque America much unafraid connected a planetary scale. And it surely doesn't support america the person of the escaped world.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I privation to inquire you astir 1 of the programs that is astatine slightest nominally being eliminated. Secretary Hegseth posted connected societal media he's ending the Women, Peace, and Security program.
Hegseth said: "It's a divisive societal justness inaugural from feminists, a distraction from warfare fighting."
But erstwhile we checked however the now-chairman of the Joint Chiefs described it, General Caine, helium said helium utilized the programme successful the tract aft an battle to nonstop successful pistillate members to talk with women and children to amended recognize quality terrain.
So, if the subject constitution says it's utile and the caput of defence says it's not and it's a distraction, what happens? And tin lawmakers similar yourself really rescue this program?
SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH: We tin if my Republicans volition halt rolling implicit for this president. We tin really rescue this program. The programme is intelligibly important. It's supported by each combatant commander. It's a programme that came astir – by the way, Marco Rubio was 1 of the leaders of this. But…
(LAUGHTER)
MARGARET BRENNAN: He was. And Kristi Noem arsenic a lawmaker supported it.
SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH: And Kristi Noem arsenic a lawmaker supported the program.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And President Trump signed it into law.
SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH: And helium signed it into law.
This shows however incompetent Hegseth is, that successful his slash-and-burn efforts astatine the Pentagon, helium fundamentally slash and burned thing without realizing that this was really a Trump epoch instrumentality and this was led by his colleagues. And present helium can't backmost retired of it.
This came retired of truly immoderate of the lessons we learned successful Afghanistan erstwhile we had the Marine Corps Lionesses, which were teams of each women Marines, tough, pugnacious fighters, who would spell successful and speech to the women successful the villages and would get quality that nary 1 other could.
(CROSSTALK)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Because the women wouldn't speech to the men.
SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH: Because women wouldn't speech to the men.
And truthful this is simply a captious programme that keeps our subject stronger and besides makes it much lethal, due to the fact that we tin find wherever our enemies are and spell aft them.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Hegseth said helium volition instrumentality the minimum required of - - what does that mean? Do you know?
SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH: I don't know. But he's the minimum of a defence secretary, truthful it's not astonishing that helium would spell to the lowest levels.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I privation to inquire you astir what's happening wrong your party.
Your chap Midwesterner Michigan Senator Elisha Slot kin said Democrats are messaging successful a mode that doesn't resonate extracurricular of bluish coastal areas. She was focusing successful connected Bernie Sanders' usage of the word oligarchy. She said, usage plain language. Talk astir kings, that we reason them.
Do you hold with her that determination is astatine minimum a messaging problem, if determination isn't thing much wrong your enactment close now?
SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH: Well, I person agelong said that we should beryllium listening to Midwest Democrats a batch more. Those of america from the halfway of the state correspond states similar Illinois. We're 102 counties; 96 are reddish and six are blue.
You don't get elected successful the Midwest without being capable to speech to mundane voters successful reddish counties astir the issues that they interest about. Do – beryllium capable to speech astir cultivation issues. Our farmers are conscionable being battered by the Trump medication close now. The tariffs are hurting them with the products they're trying to sell. The inputs that they're trying to import successful bid to program and turn their crops are being priced retired of range.
The alloy that John Deere uses to marque the tractors are besides pricing those – that instrumentality retired of range. I bash deliberation that the Democratic Party should beryllium listening to the Industrial Midwest more.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Senator Duckworth, convey you for your time.
SENATOR TAMMY DUCKWORTH: Thank you.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And we volition beryllium close backmost with a batch much Face the Nation, truthful enactment with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We crook present to Ukraine's ambassador to the United States, Oksana Markarova.
Ambassador, bully to person you back.
I recognize Russia has been attacking Kyiv arsenic precocious arsenic overnight. What tin you archer us?
OKSANA MARKAROVA (Ukrainian Ambassador to the United States): Good morning, Margaret.
Yes, different precise hard time and nighttime successful Kyiv, and not lone Kyiv, Chafee and immoderate different places. More than 165 Shahed drones, Iranian drones, person been deployed again against wholly civilian targets. So, unfortunately, this is simply a horrible world during the past 1,166 days.
Every day, careless of Russia says, determination are immoderate attacks, and determination are civilian casualties and determination are civilian destructions. And for the aforesaid 1,166 days, we enactment diligently connected getting – not lone defending us, but getting to peace. And Ukraine is devoted to peace.
MARGARET BRENNAN: There has been a displacement successful code astatine slightest betwixt the Trump medication and your president.
President Zelenskyy told reporters Friday that his speech with President Trump astatine the pope's ceremonial was the champion gathering they've ever had and he's assured things volition look antithetic now.
What is helium indicating? What's coming next? When bash they talk next?
AMBASSADOR OKSANA MARKAROVA: Look, our concern with the U.S. is precise important for us.
U.S. has been and is simply a strategical partnership. We are truly grateful to American radical for each the enactment that we are getting from the U.S. It would not beryllium imaginable for america to support ourselves without those Javelins, without those weapons that U.S. has provided us.
And it was President Trump who decided to supply america Javelins arsenic – erstwhile I was inactive a concern minister.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Back successful 2017.
AMBASSADOR OKSANA MARKAROVA: And it was backmost successful 2017.
And past ample enactment from American radical during the past 3 years person truly been a crippled changer, and we are precise grateful for it. The gathering was great. And, you know, arsenic you know, aft that meeting, we person signed truly a large agreement, economical concern statement betwixt our 2 nations, which volition instrumentality that concern to a caller level.
So, look, we mightiness person immoderate disagreements connected – successful immoderate areas, but Ukraine is committed to peace. Ukraine wants bid much than anyone, and we request U.S. We – we – our countries are based connected the aforesaid values. We are defending state successful Ukraine. We are not the ones who started this war.
And present it's not lone the close oregon motivation happening to bash – to enactment Ukraine, but, also, U.S. has, arsenic your caput of treasury said, an interest, and circumstantial economical interest, successful Ukraine.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
Well, I privation to inquire you astir that deal. This is what's often described arsenic a minerals agreement, but it's a broader economical concern that's going distant for ratification successful your authorities this week, I understand.
This was agreed to, but Russia's overseas curate has said that the mineral deposits that beryllium successful Ukraine successful the eastbound are 1 crushed his state wouldn't retreat from that area. So, tin the U.S. and Ukraine marque this woody enactment if Russian troops are inactive successful the country wherever those mineral deposits mostly are?
AMBASSADOR OKSANA MARKAROVA: Margaret, arsenic you said, this is an economical concern statement to make an concern money to – for some of our nations to payment from astonishing concern opportunities that Ukraine has.
We discussed earlier – and I'm truthful gladsome that we tin not lone sermon the horrible calamity and demolition brought by a Russian unprovoked invasion, but besides of the agleam aboriginal that we, unneurotic with America and – and different countries, tin have.
Ukraine has cultivation onshore and achromatic soil. And with the technologies, adjacent during the war, we provender much than 400 cardinal people. We person energy. We person mineral – captious mineral deposits. We person truthful overmuch successful the – including the quality talent.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
AMBASSADOR OKSANA MARKAROVA: And we tin make it together.
So, look, erstwhile Russians knock something, it's a motion for each of america that we are doing thing right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
AMBASSADOR OKSANA MARKAROVA: This woody volition work, and it volition enactment if Ukraine is peaceful.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Let's speech – let's speech much connected the different broadside of this commercialized break.
We volition beryllium close back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We volition beryllium close backmost with a batch much Face the Nation.
Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome backmost to FACE THE NATION.
We instrumentality present to our speech with Ukrainian Ambassador Oksana Markarova.
We've been discussing the woody that the United States and Ukraine came to successful respect to this economical partnership. I've work that the woody counts aboriginal U.S. subject assistance successful the signifier of ammunition, limb systems and grooming arsenic a publication to the concern fund, and that Ukraine volition not reimburse Washington for past subject aid. Is that however it's acceptable up?
OKSANA MARKAROVA (Ukrainian Ambassador): Well, we - archetypal of all, it's important that it's going to be, arsenic we say, a 50/50 deal. So we, together, volition acceptable up that fund, we volition tally it together. And each the aboriginal publication that - oregon investments that U.S. volition beryllium providing us, including subject deals, volition beryllium counted arsenic publication to that fund, and Ukraine volition beryllium besides committing the proceeds from the caller licenses and caller developments into the fund. So, essentially, it's a existent concern wherever we would beryllium capable to enactment resources unneurotic successful bid to put into a wide scope of projects, including infrastructure, including uncommon earths, including captious minerals, and some of our nations volition payment from it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: When does that get up and running?
OKSANA MARKAROVA: We're moving precise actively connected it. As you saw, the woody betwixt the governments person been signed. It's going to beryllium ratified by our parliament hopefully soon. You person seen beardown messages from President Zelenskyy. And it's his imaginativeness and imaginativeness of President Trump down the woody that is moving it forward.
Of course, determination volition beryllium the instauration of the fund, the set-up of the fund. I utilized to enactment successful backstage equity successful my erstwhile life. That takes a small spot of time. But we are moving precise fast. So, hopefully the teams volition travel - enactment everything unneurotic and we'll commencement working.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But wrong this determination aren't information guarantees. Are determination promises of aboriginal subject assistance from the United States? Because if this effort to get a bid woody unneurotic doesn't work, the destiny of the warfare is inactive successful question.
OKSANA MARKAROVA: Well, you know, this - the concern with Russian aggression towards Ukraine is truthful complex. There are galore - we've discussed the imaginable imaginable bid deals. We're discussing this economical concern woody which is already signed. We're discussing different imaginable scenarios and information guarantees and engagement of different friends and allies. And, you know, Europe has been much progressive and proactive successful a fig of areas.
So, this economical concern woody successful itself is simply a precise important portion of the broader security, information architecture, if I whitethorn accidental so. And, frankly, that money volition beryllium palmy if Ukraine is unchangeable and peaceful. So, successful a way, it's an important portion of the aboriginal information guarantees.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Vladimir Putin told Russian authorities TV, helium thinks that helium tin bring this warfare to a logical conclusion. He avoided the connection war. He said this happening that started successful 2022. But helium said, here's been nary request to usage atomic weapons and, quote, "I anticipation they volition not beryllium required."
How bash you construe that?
OKSANA MARKAROVA: Well, it's precise hard to construe a antheral and a so- called person of the federation who onslaught Georgia successful 2008, attacked Ukraine successful 2014, conducted 2 genocidal wars connected his ain successful his ain federation against Chechnya, the warfare crimes successful Syria, poisoned radical successful - successful Great Britain. I mean, I deliberation astatine this constituent it doesn't substance however we construe what helium says, we conscionable person to judge what helium says and recognize what helium says.
He is simply a threat, not lone to Ukraine, but besides to anyone who believes that nations should unrecorded peacefully, bash not situation each other's borders and conscionable absorption connected the economical operation. That's what we are doing with the United States.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
OKSANA MARKAROVA: And hopefully our corporate efforts and with Europe, with each the Baltic and Nordic states, with each the friends and allies, including Japan, including the U.K., including truthful galore radical that are coming unneurotic successful bid to bring peace, not lone to our portion of the world, but globally due to the fact that it's important.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Yes.
OKSANA MARKAROVA: Putin is doing it, unneurotic with Iran and North Korea. They are not hiding it. They are supporting different terroristic regimes. And we should besides enactment unneurotic successful bid to bring peace.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Ambassador, convey you for your clip today.
We'll beryllium close back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: We crook present to retired Lieutenant General H.R. McMaster. He served arsenic nationalist information advisor during President Trump's archetypal term, and helium is the writer of, "At War with Ourselves: My Tour of Duty successful the Trump White House."
Good to person you backmost with us.
LT. GEN. H.R. MCMASTER (Ret., Former Trump National Security Adviser): Hey, large to beryllium with you, Margaret.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you've been here. Mike Waltz is nary longer the nationalist information adviser. CBS reported his deputy, Alex Wong, volition besides depart his role. But then, arsenic of Friday morning, we recovered Wong was inactive connected the job. It is not wide what the National Security Council constitution volition beryllium oregon however agelong the caput of authorities volition beryllium astatine the caput of it advising the president.
What value does this person for America's nationalist security?
H.R. MCMASTER: I deliberation it's significant, Margaret, due to the fact that I deliberation what it reveals is, is simply a combat that's going connected wrong the medication associated with the - our relation successful the satellite and however definite radical successful the medication comprehend America's relation successful the world. And I deliberation Mike Waltz arsenic an America archetypal guy, but helium was an internationalist and prioritized, I think, our alliances. He knew that, I think, that, rather correctly, that Putin won't halt until helium is stopped. And so, helium was an advocator for a beardown attack to Putin. And I deliberation determination were those successful the medication that person a overmuch antithetic satellite view, you know, who are successful favour of - of U.S. retrenchment oregon disengagement from analyzable challenges overseas and privation to prioritize benignant of the occidental hemisphere/North American defense. And you spot that successful your treatment with - with Congressman Turner arsenic good associated with the defence fund and what's being prioritized successful the defence fund arsenic well.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you spot this arsenic a - arsenic a argumentation argument, not conscionable a Signal messaging mistake that, you know, Mike Waltz created that transmission wherever helium accidentally included a reporter?
H.R. MCMASTER: It is. I deliberation it's a - it's a argumentation issue, a satellite presumption issue, but it's besides an knowing of the relation of the - the nationalist information assembly unit and the nationalist information unit that - that - that Mike Waltz was running, and Alex Wong is - is inactive running. And - and that's truly the unit that allows the president to thrust his agenda, that gets champion analysis, champion proposal to the president and gets him aggregate options.
It seems beauteous wide that President Trump is not precise diligent successful presumption of a deliberative process these days, and this is wherefore I deliberation helium whitethorn spot the National Security Council unit arsenic an impediment alternatively of truly the champion conveyance to thrust his docket and to integrate each elements of nationalist powerfulness and efforts of like-minded partners to beforehand American interests.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You know, I thought it was an absorbing constituent Congressman Turner made erstwhile helium brought up the circumstantial constituent of notation the president has for the National Security Council during his archetypal term, which is, Turner argued, seeing them arsenic the crushed helium was impeached wherever - during his archetypal impeachment related to Ukraine. Do you deliberation that is thing that makes him distrust that counsel? Why is it that helium would instrumentality the proposal of idiosyncratic similar Laura Loomer, this acold close activistic who has made racist attacks connected immoderate of the members of that council?
H.R. MCMASTER: You know, Margaret, I deliberation determination are 3 times of radical successful immoderate administration, those who are determination to springiness the president champion advice, those who are determination not for that but privation to manipulate decisions accordant with their ain agenda. These are radical wrong and extracurricular of the administration. And there's a 3rd radical of radical who sometimes instrumentality connected the relation of possibly redeeming the state and the satellite from the president. That 2nd and 3rd group, if you person an effectual nationalist information decision-making process that gives the president aggregate options, they thin to reason that process. They thin to reason the nationalist information adviser.
And I deliberation what you're seeing is however casual it is for definite radical to get successful the president's ear, to sow distrust, to thrust a wedge betwixt him and the nationalist information advisor successful this lawsuit oregon the nationalist information unit and those who are determination to get him aggregate options.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You referenced the antithetic satellite presumption of immoderate of the radical advising the president close now. Particularly regarding our allies.
In Europe, we saw an absorbing determination this week successful Germany. Their home quality bureau concluded an probe into a far-right governmental enactment known arsenic AFD. They declared it to beryllium an extremist radical due to the fact that of anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim positions. Their leaders person trivialized the Holocaust. They've called for deporting non-white citizens due to the fact that that violates the German constitution.
This would dependable similar a home issue. However, the vice president and the caput of authorities person taken precise nationalist statements present wading into this. Rubio calling it "tyranny successful disguise." Vice President Vance besides weighing successful here. Do you deliberation that's advisable erstwhile that party's leaders person specified a troubled history? Can you explicate it?
H.R. MCMASTER: Yes, portion - portion of this, Margaret, is - is what you covered earlier successful the amusement astir this benignant of women, bid and information initiative, arsenic good arsenic I would accidental immoderate of the extremist DEI agendas of the Biden and possibly the Obama medication earlier that. This is similar an adjacent and other reaction. And it's international.
And this is 1 of the reasons wherefore determination are immoderate radical successful the United States who benignant of respect Putin arsenic - arsenic - arsenic the savior of - of occidental civilization, oregon - oregon Christianity and truthful forth, which is evidently benignant of a - a perverse presumption of him arsenic well.
But I deliberation what's related to this is this benignant of - this accent on, you know, retrenchment, conscionable instrumentality attraction of ourself, disengage from the satellite and - and I deliberation that these are - are related. What's - what's, I think, absorbing astir this though is that the Trump administration, I think, risks replicating the flaws of the Obama administration's policy, due to the fact that what you spot is, present immoderate radical successful the Republican Party seeing the root of each ills successful the satellite as, like, the neocons and - and they hint it backmost successful peculiar to the penetration of Iraq successful 2003.
So, that blaming ourselves, different Americans for the ills of the world, and the associated impulse toward disengagement risks recreating, I think, immoderate of the cardinal flaws successful benignant of the Obama medication attack to the world.
MARGARET BRENNAN: H.R. McMaster, convey you for sharing your insight.
We'll permission it there.
And we'll beryllium backmost successful a moment.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: In a commencement code past week astatine the University of Alabama, President Trump told journalism majors that he's not definite helium likes the press, but acknowledged a escaped property is important.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (President of the United States): We request a superb press. They're similar a watchkeeper. They're precise important. And you tin spell retired and instrumentality it down a caller track, assistance prevention the country.
The radical of this country, they cognize the information erstwhile they perceive it. That's wherefore the ratings, the support numbers of the media are truthful low.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARGARET BRENNAN: Last week the president offered a cutoff - ordered, excuse me, a cutoff to national backing to 2 large nationalist broadcasting systems, PBS and NPR.
For much present we're joined by CEOs Katherine Maher and Paula Kerger.
Good to person you some together.
PAULA KERGER (CEO, PBS): Great to beryllium here.
KATHERINE MAHER (CEO, NPR): Thank you for having us.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, the president issued this bid for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting, which oversees you both, to chopped disconnected funding. Are you some filing lawsuits? And connected what ground tin you situation this?
KATHERINE MAHER: We're looking astatine immoderate options are disposable to us. I deliberation it's a small preliminary for america to beryllium capable to talk to the circumstantial strategies that we mightiness take.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is that the aforesaid for pbs?
PAULA KERGER: Yes. We're, obviously, looking. And I would conscionable say, the Corporation for Public Broadcasting is simply a backing mechanism, but they really don't oversee PBS oregon NPR. We're autarkic organizations.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Important constituent to make.
But the menace of cutting disconnected backing -
PAULA KERGER: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Whether it was successful Congress oregon the president saying he's doing it now. That's not new, right? That's been a talking constituent for years. There person been efforts successful Congress. You bash person funding, I think, done 2027, but it feels a small spot antithetic this time. Do you person a backup backing plan?
PAULA KERGER: Yes, it is antithetic this time. And I've been done these battles present for a fig of years. I've been astatine PBS astir 20 years. And I retrieve adjacent going backmost to the Newt Gingrich days.
But this is different. They're coming aft america connected galore antithetic ways. We're waiting for a imaginable rescission of those funds that person already been appropriated.
MARGARET BRENNAN: They're clawing them back.
PAULA KERGER: There was an effort wrong the FCC challenging our quality to judge sponsorships from corporations, which is thing that we person worked with the FCC connected for many, galore years. There was the enforcement order. There was the effort to effort to region a fewer members of the CPB board. So, we person ne'er seen a condition similar this. And, obviously, we're going to beryllium pushing backmost precise hard due to the fact that what's astatine hazard are our stations, our nationalist television, our nationalist vigor stations crossed the country. We get 15 percent of our backing from the national government. That's 1-5 percent, but that's an aggregate number. Some of our stations successful tiny communities, it's 40 percent to 50 percent of their funding. And for them it's existential. And that's what's astatine hazard if this backing goes away.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, is it contiguous for NPR?
KATHERINE MAHER: In - successful a akin fashion. If we were to spot a claw backmost of these funds, which we cognize is portion of the speech from a rescission standpoint, oregon if we were to spot that the stations were nary longer capable to enactment successful their rank due, that would beryllium damaging.
But I deliberation that Paula's constituent is the 1 that truly radical request to hear. The contiguous harm is to section stations. And with NPR we person stations successful much than - 246 stations with newsrooms, we're successful 200 newsrooms successful each authorities successful the country, and that includes journalists who are retired determination covering their section communities, particularly successful a clip wherever we're seeing an beforehand of quality deserts crossed the nation, 20 percent of Americans don't person entree to different section root of news. The interaction of this could truly beryllium devastating, peculiarly successful agrarian communities.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The president tweeted, oregon socialed, oregon truthed, "Republicans indispensable defund and wholly disassociate themselves from NPR and PBS, the extremist near monsters that truthful severely wounded our country."
I person to archer you, I heard monsters and I thought of Cookie Monster.
PAULA KERGER: I did too, actually.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I thought of "Sesame Street" and I thought of that children's programming.
PAULA KERGER: Right.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That is successful galore - galore ways what radical deliberation of erstwhile they deliberation of PBS.
PAULA KERGER: Absolutely. (INAUDIBLE).
MARGARET BRENNAN: Is that impacted too?
PAULA KERGER: Absolutely. And retired of this enforcement order, we judge it impacts our backing retired of the Department of Education, which is simply a 30-year programme that has supported the improvement - not lone the instauration of galore of the children's programming that you spot connected nationalist television, but besides the probe that we bash to guarantee that that programming is not conscionable harmless and enjoyable, but that children, aft watching, travel distant with knowing of basal letters and numbers. Half the kids successful this state are not enrolled successful ceremonial pre-k. That's wherefore programming for children connected nationalist tv was created. That was the thought with "Sesame Street" and "Mister Rogers." And everything that's followed since is to marque definite that children that bash not person entree to a afloat array of resources person the accidental to larn and to make skills that they'll request the archetypal clip they participate preschool. That whitethorn beryllium astatine property two, oregon three, oregon four, and sometimes five, not until they commencement kindergarten. That's what's astatine risk.
MARGARET BRENNAN: At hazard oregon close now? I mean, bash you person the wealth to support functioning?
PAULA KERGER: Well, we person programming, truthful you're not going to crook connected your TV acceptable and not spot our children's programming anymore.
MARGARET BRENNAN: OK.
PAULA KERGER: But if that backing is chopped off, we person programs successful improvement close now. And that volition abruptly skid to a halt. We besides person stations astir the state that enactment straight with preschool providers and parents, and this funds those activities. So, the contiguous interaction would beryllium reasonably significant.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, Katherine, I privation to inquire you astir the news. When we went and we work the enforcement order, the connection successful determination says, "government backing of quality media successful this situation is outdated and unnecessary, corrosive to the quality of independence. Ad Americans person the close to expect if their taxation dollars money nationalist broadcasting, that it's fair, accurate, unbiased and non-partisan."
How bash you respond to the accusation that your quality sum is not?
KATHERINE MAHER: Is not just and - and non-partisan? I mean I deliberation -
MARGARET BRENNAN: And unbiased.
KATHERINE MAHER: Yes, I mean, well, archetypal of all, I deliberation it's important to enactment that I'm the CEO and we person an autarkic exertion successful main who oversees the newsroom. And so, I don't marque editorial decisions. And that, I think, is conscionable ever an important constituent to make.
But I deliberation our newsroom would truly instrumentality contented with that. We person been connected aerial for much than 50 years. We person been covering quality arsenic it occurs crossed the nation, successful section communities, oversees. We person an bonzer Washington desk. And our radical study consecutive down the line. And I deliberation that not lone bash they bash that, they bash truthful with a ngo that precise fewer different broadcast organizations have, which is simply a request to service the full public. That is the constituent of nationalist broadcasting arsenic we bring radical unneurotic successful those conversations.
And so, we've had a full big of blimpish voices connected aerial of late. We've been making requests of the Trump medication to person their officials connected air. We would similar to spot much radical judge those invitations. It's hard for america to beryllium capable to accidental we tin talk for everyone erstwhile folks won't articulation us.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, that was the enforcement order. Then we went and we looked astatine the White House talking points and what they're putting connected societal media. They're a batch much astir you than you. And connected NPR they were saying things like, July 2022 editor's enactment that said the Declaration of Independent had violative connection against Native Americans. We checked, and the connection "savages" is used. The White House faults your editors for avoiding the word "biological sex" erstwhile discussing transgender issues. They seemingly privation you to usage the word "pro-life" and faulted your usage of the word "anti-abortion rights" to notation to activists.
So, erstwhile you spot circumstantial editorial criticisms similar that, what bash you construe the volition of this being.
KATHERINE MAHER: Well, I construe the volition of this being - trying to make a communicative astir our editorial independence. And arsenic I said successful our
MARGARET BRENNAN: To power it and past (INAUDIBLE)?
KATHERINE MAHER: To power it. And I deliberation that that's a - that is an affront to the First Amendment. We person an autarkic newsroom and we volition ever person an autarkic newsroom.
From my perspective, portion of the separation of - that the First Amendment offers to support authorities out. In fact, the statute that was written erstwhile the Public Broadcasting Act was signed into instrumentality was precise explicit astir interference from immoderate subordinate of the government, whether it is elected officials, whether members of autarkic agencies, due to the fact that it is truthful sacrosanct, that part betwixt the authorities and autarkic media.
MARGARET BRENNAN: That was the Public Broadcasting Act of 1967.
KATHERINE MAHER: That's correct.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Set it up arsenic a backstage corp to springiness extortion from power and control. I would presume that's besides from the White House, power and control.
KATHERINE MAHER: That's right. And President Lyndon Johnson, who signed the measure into instrumentality creating nationalist - the Public Broadcasting Act and creating the strategy that we each run within, was - was precise enactment - helium noted successful his remarks upon signing that code was that it does requires a greater wisdom, and that's wherefore we person a two-year beforehand appropriation is to - is to insulate some of our enactment from governmental interference. I deliberation that that is captious that Americans recognize that nationalist broadcasting is meant to beryllium autarkic truthful that we tin service the nationalist involvement careless of immoderate medication is successful bureau oregon immoderate Congress' whims are.
PAULA KERGER: And the - and the Corporation for Public Broadcasting was acceptable up arsenic a backstage corp with that aforesaid intent. So, I deliberation determination was a batch of focus, adjacent astatine that moment, successful - erstwhile the enactment was signed that protections would request to beryllium enactment successful place, due to the fact that if we bash our job, it is - it is imaginable that we volition nutrient contented that immoderate radical whitethorn privation we person done a antithetic way. And this mode it gives america the independency this way.
The different happening that keeps america autarkic is that astir of our backing comes from viewers similar you. We inquire radical to marque publication to nationalist broadcasting for thing they get for free.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Right.
PAULA KERGER: Because we are disposable escaped to each location successful this country. And so, some the operation of the information that it was built arsenic a public/private partnership, determination would beryllium immoderate nationalist wealth that went into nationalist broadcasting that would alteration stations successful tiny communities to exist, alongside the information that astir of our enactment comes from radical successful communities. That truly does make thing that is precise autarkic and precise responsive to the communities that we serve.
KATHERINE MAHER: And if I may, conscionable to springiness a consciousness of those numbers, for each azygous dollar that the national authorities puts in, stations rise connected mean astir $7 -
PAULA KERGER: Right.
KATHERINE MAHER: From public/private - sorry, from backstage sources. And truthful you besides person to admit that this bid interferes with the First Amendment rights of our listeners and viewers who person made a prime to contribute. And this is the quality that they privation to spot and hear, oregon the programming that they are committed to.
MARGARET BRENNAN: It did conscionable basal retired to us, arsenic journalists ourselves, due to the fact that the probe shows that, you know, there's declining spot successful media, successful news, and the president was talking astir that himself there, that helium wants a escaped and just press.
We're going to proceed to screen this. And convey you for your clip today.
KATHERINE MAHER: You bet.
PAULA KERGER: Thank you for having us.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We'll beryllium close back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
MARGARET BRENNAN: That's it for america today. Thank you each for watching. Until adjacent week. For FACE THE NATION, I'm Margaret Brennan.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
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