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On this "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan" broadcast, moderated by Ed O'Keefe:
- Reps. Adriano Espaillat, Democrat of New York, and Carlos Gimenez, Republican of Florida
- NASA head Jared Isaacman
- NCAA President Charlie Baker
- Former CDC main aesculapian serviceman Dr. Debra Houry
Click here to browse afloat transcripts from 2026 of "Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan."
ED O'KEEFE: I'm Ed O'Keefe successful Washington.
And this week connected Face the Nation: As America celebrates its 250th birthday, we volition effort to enactment authorities speech and absorption connected immoderate of the things that marque this federation truthful unique.
Despite record-breaking temperatures sweeping crossed overmuch of the country, Americans came retired implicit the play to grant 250 years of independence. Fireworks, parades, flyovers, and red, white, and bluish were each connected show arsenic we saluted a state that, contempt being 1 of the younger nations of the world, has 1 of the longest continuing governments.
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DONALD TRUMP (President of the United States): There is nary spot we cannot go, determination is nary extremity we cannot reach, and determination is thing that Americans cannot do. And we're proving that close now.
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ED O'KEEFE: We volition instrumentality a look astatine 1 happening that is proving hard to fix, immigration. Two members of Congress who immigrated present and became U.S. citizens, Florida Republican Carlos Gimenez and New York Democrat Adriano Espaillat, archer america their stories and wherefore immigrants are truthful important to America's future.
Plus: space. As America reboots its quest to pb the satellite successful abstraction exploration, we volition bespeak connected our past and instrumentality a look astatine what's up with NASA Administrator Jared Isaacman.
And sports. Americans are driven by contention and winning. And fewer things unite america arsenic overmuch arsenic the emotion of the game. We volition speech astir changes successful assemblage sports, the proving crushed for young American athletes, with the caput of the NCAA, erstwhile Massachusetts Governor Charlie Baker.
All this and much conscionable up connected Face the Nation.
Good morning, and invited to Face the Nation. Margaret is off. I'm Ed O'Keefe.
Neither rainfall nor lightning nor 100-degree-plus vigor could unopen down the festivities successful the nation's superior Saturday night, but each 3 forces combined prompted officials to evacuate thousands from the National Mall for hours until the worst of the atrocious upwind had passed.
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ED O'KEEFE: Crowds took structure successful adjacent museums and authorities bureau buildings, but they returned to ticker President Trump's code and what was considered the world's largest fireworks show ever, which lasted until good aft midnight.
As we bespeak connected what makes America specified a almighty force…
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WOMAN: I hereby state connected oath…
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ED O'KEEFE: … we're reminded that we're a federation built by immigrants. So wherefore is it truthful hard to hole our migration system?
Well, precocious past week, we spoke with 2 members of Congress who some came to the U.S. arsenic young children. Here's our speech with Florida Republican Carlos Gimenez and New York Democrat Adriano Espaillat.
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ED O'KEEFE: Congressman Gimenez, you were astir 7 years aged erstwhile your household fled from Cuba astatine the commencement of the Castro regime. What bash you retrieve astir those aboriginal days successful Florida?
REPRESENTATIVE CARLOS GIMENEZ (R-Florida): Well, I retrieve that we each went to 1 house. My uncle, my aunt were benignant capable to instrumentality america in. There were astir 21 radical successful that house.
And I retrieve vividly my archetypal time going to school. The time earlier I went to – they took maine to a parochial school, and past the nuns saying that time was my archetypal time of school. That was my archetypal connection successful English. Until then, I lone spoke Spanish.
And so, that, I vividly remember. And past the aboriginal days there, it's similar it's similar a blur, obviously, but, yes, it was wholly antithetic than my experiences had been successful Cuba.
ED O'KEEFE: And, Congressman Espaillat, arsenic I recognize it, you were astir 9 erstwhile you came to the United States for the Dominican Republic. I ideate New York City was a spot antithetic backmost then.
REPRESENTATIVE ADRIANO ESPAILLAT (D-New York): Of course. The upwind was cold, obviously. I retrieve the acold weather. We lived with our grandparents, who had a 4.5-room chamber flat successful Washington Heights.
And we got determination successful December. And, of course, we went to school. Remember sitting successful the backmost of the schoolroom and – for a twelvemonth oregon more, not knowing truly a connection of English. But, surely and slowly, we acclimated, and present we are.
ED O'KEEFE: Do either of you retrieve your parents ever explaining wherefore they wanted to go Americans?
REPRESENTATIVE ADRIANO ESPAILLAT: My grandma was the archetypal 1 to go a U.S. citizen, and she was truthful arrogant of it. And I remembered it that she spoke astir it, astir however large this federation is and however it gave america a caller accidental of moving forward.
But she was truly arrogant of becoming an American citizen. And I deliberation it translated past backmost down to each of us. So…
REPRESENTATIVE CARLOS GIMENEZ: My parents were seeking freedom, not lone for themselves, but for us, his children, my sister and I, to springiness america the accidental to unrecorded successful a onshore of freedom.
I callback 1 time I asked him: "Hey, wherefore is it that we came to the United States a small spot older?"
And helium and helium told maine a communicative astir however I had travel location and I'd asked him a question, and, to him, it felt similar we were being indoctrinated into communism. And helium decided close past and determination that we had to leave.
ED O'KEEFE: Both of you correspond areas wherever determination are galore radical nether Temporary Protected Status, but the Supreme Court successful caller days ruled that astir 356,000 oregon truthful radical from Haiti and Syria are going to suffer their TPS.
And past that decision, of course, follows the Trump administration's determination to cancel their impermanent ineligible protection. This contented is possibly astir acute successful South Florida, fixed the Haitian community, Congressman Gimenez.
I'm curious, what should the caput do, what should the medication bash present with these hundreds of thousands of people?
REPRESENTATIVE CARLOS GIMENEZ: In the lawsuit of Haiti, without a doubt, Haiti is simply a failed state, and I deliberation that deporting Haitians that are nether TPS close present backmost to Haiti would beryllium a immense mistake.
I mean, that's the crushed wherefore TPS was established to statesman with, conscionable similar with Venezuelans. If Venezuelans suffer their TPS status, which they person too, we should reinstate that due to the fact that of the devastation caused by these earthquakes that happened past week.
And truthful TPS should beryllium – should not beryllium abused. TPS is what it says, Temporary Protected Status. And if you're present for a fig of years, you should alteration your presumption from TPS to thing else. But, by the aforesaid token, it is meant to safeguard those that are fleeing countries which are either failed states and determination would beryllium astatine hazard of going backmost to them, oregon countries that truly can't grip them close now, arsenic the lawsuit of Venezuela.
ED O'KEEFE: What mightiness beryllium the easiest, fastest bipartisan hole Congress could marque to woody with immigration?
REPRESENTATIVE ADRIANO ESPAILLAT: I judge precise powerfully that it should beryllium bipartisan.
And, of course, determination are 3 peculiar items that I deliberation are casual to fix. Dreamers is 1 of them. These are young radical that came present erstwhile they were 1, 2 years old. Many of them don't talk the connection of their homeland oregon person nary connections whatsoever with the state wherever they were born.
Yet they're Americans but for 1 thing, their greenish card. It's a fixed fig of them. I deliberation astir radical hold that they should beryllium fto in. They should beryllium allowed to enactment here. So, regularizing them is one.
Farmworkers, who – galore of whom are not going to the fields to enactment due to the fact that they're acrophobic they're going to beryllium arrested and deported, we request them. And past keeping families unneurotic is important, due to the fact that a household that's divided, that's fractured is simply a anemic family, and galore anemic families marque up a anemic nation.
ED O'KEEFE: Congressman Gimenez, immoderate of those connected your list?
REPRESENTATIVE CARLOS GIMENEZ: Look, I hold with a batch of what the congressman has said.
The occupation successful migration got exacerbated due to the fact that we – the unfastened borders that we had during the Biden years, and you had millions and millions of radical coming into the United States, and it truly drove the contented of migration home.
And I thought we were getting person to immoderate benignant of a solution until that happened. The borders are present closed. And I person ever said that, erstwhile you – erstwhile you unafraid the borders, past we tin person an honorable statement astir the radical that are here, the immigrants that are here, those that are undocumented.
And I deliberation that we tin scope a solution. And those that person been present for years that person been working, are portion of the community, that are portion of the economy, we request to find a mode to normalize them.
Doesn't needfully mean that they're going to beryllium citizens astatine the extremity of the day, but to normalize them, truthful they tin travel retired of the shadows, wage taxes, and past unrecorded their beingness without having fearfulness of idiosyncratic coming up and taking them distant aft 20-something years and separating from their children that they person had during that time.
And truthful we person to find a solution. I deliberation that the solution could beryllium bipartisan, but it besides seems, erstwhile the Democrats were successful control, it wasn't – it didn't happen. When we were successful control, it didn't happen. It's got to happen.
ED O'KEEFE: What is your connection to someone, possibly Congressman Gimenez, that is connected the extracurricular looking in, who mightiness privation to go – who mightiness privation to travel to the United States and physique a amended life? What would beryllium your connection to them?
REPRESENTATIVE CARLOS GIMENEZ: My connection is to bash it the close way. And past you volition beryllium welcomed with unfastened arms.
There's a batch of skills that we request present inactive successful the United States, adjacent though we privation to marque definite that Americans get those jobs, but, sometimes, you bash request skills from outside. And, by the way, it's not a atrocious happening to get caller ideas, caller perspectives coming into the United States from each astir the world, due to the fact that that's what makes America the top state successful the world.
ED O'KEEFE: And Congressman Espaillat?
REPRESENTATIVE ADRIANO ESPAILLAT: This nation, arsenic we observe the 250th anniversary, inactive has promise. And I deliberation migration has been a cardinal portion of our quality to determination guardant arsenic a nation.
So, I inquire those that privation to travel to our federation that this – bring your ideas. Bring your innovativeness. Bring your talent. Bring your energy, the vigor that has displayed itself passim decades and passim our history.
There's been nary play successful American past that has not been pushed by migration forward. Even successful our astir hard times, it is the influx of caller ideas and caller vigor that makes our state different. And, of course, this is simply a large experiment, and everybody wants to travel to America.
Do it the close way. There are channels done which you tin bash it. We volition proceed to invited radical from each implicit the world. This is simply a federation that inactive has a batch to offer, is inactive comparatively a precise young nation, and 1 that I deliberation has a batch of committedness towards the future.
I'm blessed that my parents, my grandparents, who were some mill workers, brought america present to America. What a large promise. What a large nation.
(End VT)
ED O'KEEFE: Face the Nation volition beryllium backmost successful 1 infinitesimal with a look astatine a agleam portion of our past and our future, space.
Stay with us.
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ED O'KEEFE: One of the astir unifying events truthful acold this twelvemonth was April's palmy motorboat of Artemis II, a ngo that had galore of america mesmerized for days, and introduced a caller procreation of Americans to 1 of the agleam spots erstwhile it comes to American ingenuity.
Here's elder nationalist analogous Mark Strassmann.
(Begin VT)
VICTOR GLOVER (Artemis II Pilot, NASA): We conscionable went sci-fi. This has – it conscionable looks unreal.
MARK STRASSMANN (voice-over): America's pioneering spirit, undeniable, unrelenting, it fueled Artemis II's moonshot backmost successful April. It has defined our state for 250 years, from sailing vessel to spaceship.
What person you been astir struck by?
VICTOR GLOVER: We person seen and felt things that we person ne'er felt before.
MARK STRASSMANN: We felt it with Alan Shepard, the archetypal American successful space, John Glenn, the archetypal American successful orbit…
JOHN GLENN (Former NASA Astronaut): Oh, that presumption is tremendous.
MARK STRASSMANN: … and passim NASA's aboriginal programs, Mercury, Gemini, Apollo.
JOHN F. KENNEDY (Former President of the United States: We take to spell to the satellite successful this decennary and bash the different things not due to the fact that they are easy, but due to the fact that they are hard.
MARK STRASSMANN: Earth stood inactive and felt it successful 1969 Watching successful awe 2 Americans go history's archetypal moonwalkers.
MAN #1: Engine stop.
MAN #2: We transcript you down, Eagle.
WALTER CRONKITE (Former CBS News Anchor): Whew. Boy.
NEIL ARMSTRONG (Former NASA Astronaut): OK. We're going to beryllium engaged for a minute. Tranquility Base here. The Eagle has landed.
MAN #2: Roger, Tranquility. We transcript you connected the ground. You got a clump of guys astir to crook blue.
NEIL ARMSTRONG: That's 1 tiny measurement for man, 1 elephantine leap for mankind.
MARK STRASSMANN: Retired astronaut Charlie Duke was the dependable successful Houston's ngo power talking to Apollo 11's crew.
CHARLIE DUKE (Former NASA Astronaut): It really, to me, brought the U.S. unneurotic and was precise significant.
MARK STRASSMANN: Especially fixed the turmoil of that decade.
CHARLIE DUKE: Yes, right.
MAN #3: Launch of America's archetypal abstraction shuttle.
MARK STRASSMANN: Over the decades, America invited on planetary partners to assistance research the cosmos, from the abstraction shuttle to the International Space Station, from Hubble and different universe-probing satellites to robotic explorers connected Mars, on the way, moments erstwhile the quality outgo was unthinkable, Challenger successful 1986…
MAN #4: Obviously, a large malfunction.
MARK STRASSMANN: … Columbia successful 2003, moments that paused our abstraction exploration, but did not halt it.
WOMAN: Ignition. Liftoff.
MARK STRASSMANN: In today's commercialized epoch of space, companies often pb the way, alternatively than countries, SpaceX, Blue Origin, Boeing.
And aft a nine-year gap, we're again launching American astronauts from U.S. soil.
Former NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine backmost successful 2018:
Some of this is American pride.
JIM BRIDENSTINE (Former NASA Administrator): Prestige. I similar – I similar to usage the connection prestige. Great nations should beryllium capable to motorboat their ain astronauts into space.
MAN #5: Booster ignition.
MARK STRASSMANN: Launching them to the satellite and back.
MAN #6: Now bound for the moon.
MARK STRASSMANN: Yes, abstraction is hard, but America's abstraction communicative would consciousness acquainted to her archetypal settlers, determination starring to discovery.
REID WISEMAN (Artemis II Crew Member): It is perfectly spectacular, surreal. There's – I cognize of – there's nary adjective. I'm going to request to invent immoderate caller ones to picture what we are looking astatine retired this window.
(End VT)
ED O'KEEFE: Our Mark Strassmann reporting, acknowledgment to him for that.
We crook present to NASA Administrator Jared Isaacman, who's backmost connected the crushed aft his Fourth of July flyover. Yes, helium was 1 of those piloting 1 of those jets close there.
I deliberation you're going to basal successful Face the Nation past arsenic the archetypal to ever aviator a flyover and past amusement up for the show. So, we admit it. Thanks for being here.
JARED ISAACMAN (NASA Administrator): I was grateful to enactment successful specified a historical event, arsenic was yesterday, and to beryllium present contiguous and speech astir specified an astonishing subject.
ED O'KEEFE: Yes. And that's portion of wherefore we wanted you here, due to the fact that I deliberation we've reflected connected the past fewer months astir however Artemis particularly truly seemed to bring the state and, to immoderate extent, the satellite backmost unneurotic to – to absorption connected this communal travel backmost into the large beyond.
Why, successful your view, is it truthful important that America support a beingness successful space?
ADMINISTRATOR JARED ISAACMAN: Well, I person – I person been fortunate to beryllium successful abstraction doubly and person that position and appreciation for conscionable the standard of it all.
I mean, champion mode to picture it, like, we are knowing our advancement connected what I deliberation is the top escapade successful quality past is virtually conscionable dipping your toed successful the grandest water of all, I mean, conscionable an appreciation. I mean, we are lucky. We are fortunate that we've been talented a satellite that is conscionable 4.5 days distant arsenic a proving crushed to proceed to task out.
And we've conscionable begun it all, I mean, each that we basal to larn from a technological perspective, economical potential. I volition archer you, determination volition beryllium a lunar system someday. We'll beryllium mining asteroids astatine immoderate point. So it's - - it's not conscionable scientific. There's economic. There is simply a monolithic inspirational constituent to it.
I mean, we speech astir the satellite pausing and watching those Artemis II astronauts, right? But however galore children were watching, your children, grandchildren, that were watching that present privation to turn up and lend to this large endeavor arsenic engineers and scientists and astronauts?
I mean, surely a terms worthy paying, but it is only, truly, conscionable the beginning. We hardly recognize our star – you know, what's successful our star system, fto unsocial each the different stars successful the Milky Way postulation oregon each the different galaxies retired there.
ED O'KEEFE: I privation to inquire you astir a fewer things facing NASA close now.
First off, successful the past fewer days, you've launched a spot of a repair ngo with backstage companies to enactment connected what's called the Swift scope that tracks gamma rays and has been falling little and lower, person to the Earth's ambiance for years.
How is that ngo progressing present astir 3 days into it?
ADMINISTRATOR JARED ISAACMAN: Well, we're inactive getting information from it. It is an highly fascinating mission.
It is simply a rescue ngo for a – for a technological instrumentality that's up there. So, you know, successful the past, abstraction was highly expensive. You'd person to walk a precise agelong clip gathering your instruments, you know, tons of layers of redundancy, which conscionable adds much outgo and much delays.
And present we tin instrumentality vantage of the healthiest commercialized motorboat marketplace successful the past of America's abstraction program, tons of antithetic providers that tin bash things inexpensively, and we tin experiment. So, we person a scope oregon technological instrumentality that's successful immoderate grade of distress close now.
And for a precise debased cost, we tin experimentation with manufacture to motorboat a ngo to rendezvous with it, dock, boost it, and springiness it a caller lease connected life. Now, it's precise aboriginal successful the mission. As you said, it's lone been a mates days. We're inactive establishing comms with it, and it's besides precise experimental.
So I wouldn't person expected it to travel retired of the gross and beryllium perfect, but we'll larn much successful the days ahead. And, if it works, this gives america options for Hubble and different technological instruments.
ED O'KEEFE: And it's astir a $30 cardinal terms tag, which, for NASA, is affordable, oregon surely little outgo than galore of the different projects, right?
ADMINISTRATOR JARED ISAACMAN: Of course.
I mean, you deliberation astir thing similar present James Webb, it wouldn't beryllium applicable to – due to the fact that it's based retired of the Lagrange point. But, I mean, that was an highly expensive, multi-multi-billion-dollar, astir a multi-decade mission.
ED O'KEEFE: Right.
ADMINISTRATOR JARED ISAACMAN: Now, alternatively of replacing it with different multibillion-dollar mission, if you could motorboat thing for $30 cardinal to spell up and heighten it, you know, springiness it a caller lease connected life, that's – that's wealth worthy spending.
Now, again, you wouldn't bash it with James Webb, but this is simply a bully illustration of a ngo wherever you tin trial retired the capability. And who knows the worth it'll person successful years ahead.
ED O'KEEFE: In the past century, Russia was our biggest abstraction competitor. In this one, arguably, it's China. And you've warned repeatedly that we whitethorn present beryllium successful a contention with them that measures not successful years, but successful months.
And truthful it's against that informing I inquire you a fewer questions present astir Artemis III. You're preparing to instrumentality disconnected the adjacent Artemis ngo adjacent year. You person had, however, immoderate setbacks. Are you inactive assured it's going to spell disconnected arsenic scheduled?
ADMINISTRATOR JARED ISAACMAN: Well, I would conscionable say, first, it's not arguably. Like, determination – we are precise overmuch successful a abstraction contention close now, and the Chinese are moving astatine unthinkable speeds, and they are surely susceptible of doing what the Soviets were not during the – the archetypal abstraction race.
The Chinese volition onshore their taikonauts connected the moon. There's nary question. The question is, volition the United States instrumentality earlier them, and volition we bash truthful successful a antithetic mode this time, erstwhile we physique a base, found that enduring presence?
I deliberation the reply is yes. President Trump gave america the nationalist abstraction argumentation my archetypal time connected the job. He gave america a $10 cardinal plus-up investment, a historical investment, successful the Working Family Tax Cut Act. That's what allowed america to adhd the Artemis III ngo adjacent year.
So we are going back. It volition beryllium an unbelievable display. Last night's fireworks show, unbelievable display. I'm telling you, successful a precise abbreviated span of time, connected Artemis III, you're going to spot the 3 astir almighty rockets successful the world, NASA's SLS, SpaceX's Starship, Blue Origin's New Glenn.
And past you're going to person the landers travel unneurotic successful Earth orbit, trial retired their capabilities, precise a la Apollo 9,give america the assurance successful our landers for Artemis IV successful 2028. This is an achievable program to enactment astronauts backmost connected the aboveground of the moon.
And, successful parallel, we're launching missions adjacent constantly, connected a adjacent monthly cadence successful 2027 to physique the satellite base, truthful we person that enduring presence, that proving crushed for Mars.
ED O'KEEFE: So, you – the extremity is to get Artemis IV to the satellite by 2028. The Chinese are reasoning astir 2030. Any hold perchance puts america excessively adjacent to their 2030 goal, right?
ADMINISTRATOR JARED ISAACMAN: Well, they said earlier 2030, I privation to clarify.
ED O'KEEFE: OK.
ADMINISTRATOR JARED ISAACMAN: That's wherefore I accidental this is months, not years, close now.
ED O'KEEFE: Yes.
ADMINISTRATOR JARED ISAACMAN: They are reasoning successful 2029. We're saying extremity of 2028 is erstwhile we're targeting the landing. That is months, not years. But we person an achievable plan. We person a nationalist abstraction policy. We person bipartisan enactment from Congress.
We person the champion and brightest from astir the federation that did this before, and we'll bash it again.
ED O'KEEFE: One of the issues successful getting acceptable for these adjacent missions, of course, is what happened with Blue Origin's New Glenn rocket a fewer months ago. It exploded astatine the extremity of May. The CEO has acknowledged they don't cognize the origin yet. They're inactive trying to fig it out, but they inactive anticipation to alert and beryllium capable to relaunch aboriginal this year.
Have you gotten immoderate updates connected what happened with that explosion, and is it important to cognize what happened for definite earlier they effort immoderate different launches?
ADMINISTRATOR JARED ISAACMAN: Well, NASA has been playing a relation successful – successful this from the beginning.
So, we were – I was connected tract with a squad the adjacent greeting aft that – that setback. I was determination with Jeff Bezos and their CEO, Dave Limp, connected the matter. We've helped supply taxable substance experts to Blue Origin. We're helping with anomaly probe connected the rocket. We're helping with pad rebuild.
Most importantly, we're helping proceed to determination the lander along. We can't dilatory down. There are – of course, they're going to get their arms astir the anomaly. They've honed successful already connected a imaginable motor issue. They're going to lick that, right?
You spell backmost to the precocious 1950s, aboriginal 1960s, you tin spot YouTube videos of NASA rockets having issues each the time. It's however we learn. They – nary 1 got wounded successful this, truthful they're going to learn. They're going to hole their engine. They're going to rebuild their pad. They're going to get backmost to launching rockets. NASA's determination to help.
And, similar I said, it's the healthiest motorboat marketplace successful the past of America's abstraction program. We person tons of providers that tin contribute. We got to support the lander progressing and guarantee we person the close outcome, which is simply a palmy Artemis III mission, and past we onshore connected Artemis IV.
ED O'KEEFE: In our remaining seconds, you mentioned satellite bases. By 2029, you privation to person humans surviving connected the satellite for extended periods of time, right?
ADMINISTRATOR JARED ISAACMAN: Well, I would say, starting successful 2027, we privation to commencement gathering the base. In 2028, erstwhile the NASA astronauts get to the aboveground moon, there's going to beryllium a buggy there, a lunar terrain vehicle, there's going to beryllium a commencement of infrastructure. 2029, you're going to person much infrastructure.
But I would say, aboriginal 2030s, the satellite is going to beryllium similar the International Space Station. You're going to person crews that are determination connected beauteous extended periods of time, arsenic we larn successful that situation and hole for Mars.
ED O'KEEFE: Lots of wealth required, tons of enactment to beryllium done, but we admit you being here, NASA Administrator Jared Isaacman. Happy Fourth of July.
ADMINISTRATOR JARED ISAACMAN: Happy Fourth.
ED O'KEEFE: Appreciate it.
ADMINISTRATOR JARED ISAACMAN: Thank you.
ED O'KEEFE: And we'll beryllium close backmost with a batch much Face the Nation. Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ED O'KEEFE: A reminder, you tin ticker Face the Nation broadcasts, extended interviews, previews of upcoming interviews, overmuch much connected our Web tract and YouTube page. Broadcasts and extended interviews are besides disposable connected our podcast platform.
We volition beryllium close back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ED O'KEEFE: We volition beryllium close backmost with overmuch much Face the Nation, including my speech with NCAA President Charlie Baker astir the aboriginal of assemblage sports and Margaret's interrogation with a erstwhile CDC authoritative astir the challenges down the scenes astatine the bureau nether the 2nd Trump administration.
Stay with us.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ED O'KEEFE: Welcome backmost to look the nation.
Tomorrow, the U.S. nationalist shot squad takes the tract against Belgium successful the circular of 16 successful the World Cup. And on with galore diehard Knicks fans, I'm inactive feeling the thrill of past month's NBA championship. And past determination were those astonishing Olympic golden medal wins of some women and men's U.S. hockey teams. I could spell on.
But to instrumentality a look astatine immoderate of the large changes successful assemblage sports, including caller rules allowing athletes to gain wealth and schools to straight stock revenue, we spoke with the president of the NCAA, erstwhile Massachusetts Governor Charlie Baker, and asked astir those changes.
(BEGIN VT)
CHARLIE BAKER (NCAA President): I deliberation it's a bully thing. Is it messy? Yes. Could it person been little messy? Maybe. But erstwhile you spell done thing similar this, connected this benignant of scale, wherever you're talking astir a cardinal dollars perchance going retired to pupil athletes each year, it's going to beryllium challenging. And arsenic a result, it has been.
ED O'KEEFE: You're supportive of the bipartisan Protect College Sports Act due to the fact that it establishes nationalist standards connected the name, image, and likeness programme for pupil athletes due to the fact that it limits subordinate transfers and makes different changes that are designed to beryllium equitable, astatine slightest successful the legislation, crossed assemblage athletics.
But you cognize respective of the largest diversion conferences instrumentality contented with this legislation. So, arsenic Washington continues debating it, wherefore bash you deliberation it's necessary? Why bash you deliberation it's worthy passing?
CHARLIE BAKER: If you were to accidental to me, you know, is the eligibility strategy that we presently person working? I mean if everybody would comply with it and enactment retired of the courts, maybe. But they don't. There is nary cause recommendation, which is simply a immense problem. You speech to immoderate pupil jock astir that, immoderate schoolhouse astir it, they'll archer you that. This provides immoderate regulatory operation astir agents. It besides deals with each the authorities pr-emption issues.
What we're truly trying to execute is immoderate benignant of nationalist model truthful that you tin person nationalist championships and nationalist competitions successful which, for each intents and purposes, everybody's playing by the aforesaid acceptable of rules.
Now, I recognize immoderate of the concerns that the Big Ten and the SEC successful peculiar raised with the bill. We person immoderate concerns with the measure too. But to simply locomotion distant from thing that deals with a fig of the astir important challenges that look assemblage sports, astatine that constituent successful time, successful my view, it would beryllium a mistake.
ED O'KEEFE: By allowing the NIL and allowing schools to straight stock revenue, you are seeing antithetic Division I programs successful different sports, different than shot and basketball, which are the biggest, get cut. Things similar volleyball, way and field, a batch of the Olympic sports. And there's been a batch of interest astir that.
What does this authorities do, what's the NCAA doing to guarantee that portion each the wealth is going into football, basketball, lacrosse possibly to immoderate extent, volleyball, women's (INAUDIBLE) to immoderate extent, but each those different sports, what are you doing to support those and guarantee that athletes who privation to enactment successful those volition inactive beryllium capable to bash so?
CHARLIE BAKER: The thought that sports are being chopped lone tells fractional the story, due to the fact that astatine the aforesaid clip definite sports whitethorn beryllium being cut, different sports are being introduced.
If you look astatine the fig of kids who are playing sports close present successful Division I and you look astatine the fig that are playing successful Division II and Division III, they're fundamentally beauteous adjacent to all-time highs. No 1 ever writes astir oregon talks astir oregon promotes the sports that get added. They lone speech astir – which I recognize having travel retired of authorities myself – astir the sports that get cut. We way each this worldly each 4th with respect to adds and subtracts with respect to sports that are being made disposable and sports that are being reduced.
ED O'KEEFE: Yes.
CHARLIE BAKER: But I deliberation the thought that someway there's a situation here, I don't bargain it, archetypal of all. And secondly, I deliberation the – I deliberation the authorities does woody with this successful a assortment of ways. I hap to deliberation determination are amended ways to woody with it, and it's an important issue, and we're going to proceed to speech to folks successful the Senate astir that. But I deliberation this conception that someway paying oregon providing gross sharing to kids successful precocious gross sports, of which, frankly, there's truly lone two, shot and immoderate hoops programs, radical request to retrieve that shot and men's basketball, for the astir part, supports each the different programs that schools marque available, particularly successful Division I. And that is not an insignificant contented erstwhile you deliberation astir this.
ED O'KEEFE: Yes.
CHARLIE BAKER: I judge that, astatine the extremity of the day, the champion mode to woody with it is, dainty the sports that make important amounts of gross appropriately, right, and marque definite determination is this accidental to stock revenue.
ED O'KEEFE: In caller days, the U.S. Supreme Court decided to fto states find whether oregon not to let transgender athletes to enactment successful sports. Last twelvemonth the NCAA changed its argumentation to align with the president's enforcement bid threatening to revoke national backing for schools that permitted transgender athletes. The NCAA changed its policy, successful part, saying it provides clear, nationalist standard.
In airy of the precocious court's ruling, bash you foresee the NCAA having to tweak its transgender athletes policy?
CHARLIE BAKER: I don't deliberation so. I mean, mostly speaking, we effort to found policies from astir of our programs that tin hopefully person a nationalist modular to it. I had said to folks, Democrats and Republicans successful Washington, aft I got this job, that we needed immoderate benignant of clarity astir what the nationalist modular for this would be. And we adopted and comply with the modular that was enactment distant by the Trump administration.
I deliberation what happens astatine the authorities level is simply a antithetic question. Although I bash deliberation our nationalist modular is going to beryllium what we expect our schools to usage with respect to eligibility issues for assemblage sports.
ED O'KEEFE: There are a batch of radical who, though, who look astatine this and think, you know, I went to this university, it can't vie with immoderate of these bigger ones. Are we – are we fundamentally successful an epoch wherever the – lone the biggest brands and the deepest pockets successful assemblage sports tin expect to triumph hoops and shot championships?
CHARLIE BAKER: Well, I deliberation shot is simply a small antithetic than immoderate of the different sports. I deliberation successful football, fixed the standard of what it takes to make a competitory program, which was existent adjacent earlier the NIL era, that's astir apt a tenable assumption. I deliberation successful astir different sports there's inactive plentifulness of country for competition.
I mean, if you look astatine baseball, for example, Troy and Alabama made it to the College World Series. If you look astatine – if you look astatine crystal hockey, Denver won the nationalist championship. There are plentifulness sports wherever there's inactive a batch of competition.
What's peculiarly interesting, I think, connected the women's broadside is – is the standard and value of however overmuch occurrence the large programs and the powerfulness league schools person had successful increasing and winning successful women's sports. Investments that they've made determination person made an tremendous quality successful their quality to retired vie conscionable astir everybody else.
ED O'KEEFE: There are leaders astatine the Southeastern Conference, for example, I'm reasoning of the caput manager and the president of the University of Georgia, who person talked openly astir the SEC breaking distant from the NCAA if this authorities that's being considered isn't considered favorable to the league and erstwhile the TV contracts travel up, wherefore don't they conscionable spell their ain abstracted way? What would you accidental to those successful SEC oregon different leagues that accidental – oregon conferences that say, yes, let's conscionable spell retired connected our own?
CHARLIE BAKER: Well, they'll person a hard clip moving nationalist championships if they bash that due to the fact that everybody won't person the aforesaid rules.
I really similar and respect a batch of the radical astatine Georgia successful peculiar and astatine Ole Miss, and astatine LSU, and a full clump of those schools who I woody with connected a beauteous regular basis. I deliberation the anticipation of trying to fig retired immoderate mode to find what truly has to beryllium nationalist modular to person nationalist championships. And what you astir apt could bash astatine a league level, due to the fact that it doesn't, you know, needfully impact our quality to tally nationalist championships connected a level playing field, could beryllium 1 mode to deliberation astir it.
(END VT)
ED O'KEEFE: We'll beryllium close back.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ED O'KEEFE: On Wednesday, Margaret sat down with the erstwhile CDC main aesculapian serviceman Debra Houry, who near the bureau successful protestation aft past CDC Director Susan Monarez was fired precocious past summer. Houry has provided a Senate committee with hundreds of e-mails documenting the challenges astatine the bureau during this Trump administration. Here's her communicative of what happened conscionable aft President Trump took office.
(BEGIN VT)
DEBRA HOURY, MD (Former CDC Chief Medical Officer): We started getting enforcement orders wherever we took down hundreds of websites. And I thought, this is highly unusual. You know, subject doesn't alteration based disconnected who is successful office. And so, erstwhile these things were happening, I knew this was antithetic than before. I besides didn't little the secretary, which was precise antithetic than anterior administrations.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, the websites you are talking astir being taken down, this was due to the fact that of the enforcement bid to region references to sex ideology.
DEBRA HOURY: Yes. And that included the word "gender." And "gender" was successful galore of our information sets. Gender of animals. You know, we had transgender guidance astir mpox. All of that we were told to instrumentality down.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, it included the CDC and FDA pulling down however physicians should dainty STDs. That seems important information.
DEBRA HOURY: It's precise important accusation but it referred to "transgender" and you couldn't conscionable bash a connection replace. And truthful we highlighted things similar this that, you know, and again, arsenic a doctor, it was precise concerning to maine that if you've got patients and doctors that request circumstantial objective guidance, to not beryllium capable to supply that information.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You besides documented a scramble connected the wrong to get immoderate of the sites backmost up.
DEBRA HOURY: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And this happened to beryllium conscionable a time aft the caput had finished his confirmation hearings. Why?
DEBRA HOURY: We were told that determination was a interest it could wounded the secretary's confirmation, that if vaccine-related accusation was missing from the website, that it could bespeak poorly connected him.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Specifically accusation astir vaccines?
DEBRA HOURY: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Because, why?
DEBRA HOURY: There was a interest that the caput had expressed anti- vaccine sentiments and that if CDC, arsenic helium was coming connected board, didn't person accusation connected vaccines connected the website, that it had to bash with his proceeding and his direction.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, each of these had been taken down due to the fact that you were trying to comply with what the president wanted.
DEBRA HOURY: Correct.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But past realizing it mightiness wounded votes to corroborate the secretary, you had to scramble and enactment immoderate of them backmost up.
DEBRA HOURY: That's our understanding. And to beryllium precise wide –
MARGARET BRENNAN: Sounds a small confusing.
DEBRA HOURY: When we took the websites down, we flagged that galore of these websites contained accusation specified arsenic that. I don't deliberation they understood the measurement oregon the interaction until media and others started noticing each the websites that were gone.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You know, during the secretary's confirmation hearing, helium said, "all decisions would beryllium escaped of governmental power and guided by science."
DEBRA HOURY: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But you received an email from his main of unit telling you of the, quote, "absolute request for governmental reappraisal of large decisions astatine the CDC."
How antithetic is that from emblematic management?
DEBRA HOURY: That has ne'er happened before. Usually, you know, surely determination would beryllium governmental reappraisal of precocious level decisions, but not each decision. And scientists' careers would beryllium astatine the table. I tin archer you, done my 8 months, erstwhile I was modulation pb and lone vocation (ph) successful the bureau of the director, I was not portion of astir of the conversations with the governmental appointees astatine HHS.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And did astir of those governmental appointees person aesculapian degrees?
DEBRA HOURY: I don't deliberation any. And HHS, astatine that time, had aesculapian degrees. We had 1 idiosyncratic astatine CDC who was a governmental appointee who had a aesculapian degree. He didn't travel for the archetypal fewer months. And past the bureau of the director, we had nary 1 with a aesculapian inheritance oregon adjacent a nationalist wellness background.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, the decisions being made were by individuals who had nary aesculapian background?
DEBRA HOURY: No aesculapian background. And not lone nary aesculapian background, nary subject background, and, for galore of them nary inheritance successful government.
And I privation to beryllium clear, it's surely OK to person antithetic perspectives, you know, and antithetic expertise. But past you privation to marque definite that the scientists and the experts are besides being heard and portion of those decisions. And we weren't.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Back In 2024, 2025, this was a truly aggravated flu season.
DEBRA HOURY: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The worst successful much than 15 years. Nearly 300 kids died. At that time, HHS had this consciousness run called Wild to Mild.
DEBRA HOURY: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: And it encouraged everyone, it said, six months and older to get a flu shot. So, 1 time aft Secretary Kennedy is sworn in, determination are past a flurry of e-mails –
DEBRA HOURY: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Saying this is simply a nonstop request, that was the connection used, from the caput to propulsion down each of those ads. Why?
DEBRA HOURY: I archetypal thought determination was a misunderstanding. We're – children are dying. It's an progressive flu season. It's not similar flu is over. And we'd already paid for these – for these ads. So, it didn't marque immoderate sense. And so, I brought it to our governmental leaders and brought it backmost to our communications unit and asked them to delight relay backmost to the department, surely this isn't what you want. And past we got a enactment back, it's a nonstop petition from the secretary.
MARGARET BRENNAN: A increasing fig of states, 29 positive D.C., person announced they're nary longer pursuing CDC recommendations arsenic a benchmark for puerility vaccines. This is excessively much. Do you deliberation that nationalist wellness and religion successful nationalist wellness tin beryllium restored?
DEBRA HOURY: I deliberation the caput has caused a batch of irreparable harm. And erstwhile you look astatine galore of the polls retired there, the spot successful nationalist health, specifically CDC, has decreased dramatically. Over 20 points successful galore polls. That's truly hard to retrieve from.
And erstwhile states are removing links to the CDC website and pursuing different aesculapian organizations, I don't cognize however you'd physique backmost that spot overnight.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Autism and uncovering retired much astir it is simply a existent absorption for the caput before. When helium was moving for president himself, helium enactment this astatine the apical of his docket arsenic well. A batch of families are looking to him with a batch of hope.
DEBRA HOURY: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you spot what is being conducted successful presumption of probe into autism?
DEBRA HOURY: Absolutely not. And that's unfortunate due to the fact that autism is simply a important contented successful our state and worldwide. But there's not a azygous reply to it. You know, we cognize that 40 to 60 percent is linked to immoderate benignant of familial etiology. There's biology factors. There's astir apt infectious illness factors. So, you request to truly person a robust tract of survey astir autism verses again looking astatine a azygous question.
And what we saw was backmost successful February and March we were asked to look astatine autism and we projected respective antithetic ideas, including a ample survey looking astatine autism and moving with NIH. And what came backmost was america was, no, we privation to look astatine the vaccine information information nexus information for autism.
MARGARET BRENNAN: They were –
DEBRA HOURY: So, narrowing successful connected vaccines and autism verses what we had proposed. And adjacent much concerning is, erstwhile my staff, we'd stopped NIH scientists who did autism work, they weren't alert that the NIH acting director, and immoderate of the different NIH political, had reached retired to america astir looking astatine vaccine and autism and CDC data.
MARGARET BRENNAN: How is that possible?
DEBRA HOURY: I conjecture determination wasn't connection betwixt the NIH governmental and the NIH experts connected autism. And aft that determination was nary much connection betwixt our scientists successful autism and the NIH scientists connected autism astir that topic.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The Kennedy aides did not spot the professionals wrong the CDC and the NIH, is that fair?
DEBRA HOURY: I would accidental that's fair.
MARGARET BRENNAN: In your e-mails there's 1 from the manager of the National Center connected Birth Defects and Developmental Disabilities. And said they're looking into however to respond to questions astir vaccine information and autism. And that's erstwhile you said, not until we're asked, and don't spell truthful narrow.
Whatever happened to that? Was determination ever a CDC survey launched?
DEBRA HOURY: No. Well, not connected what I had proposed. What I had projected backmost to that halfway manager was that autism was an important happening to survey and we should beryllium looking broader and moving with NIH. What came backmost alternatively was that NIH, the acting director, arsenic good arsenic the contractor, John Powers, who's present NIH institute acting director, were going to look astatine the vaccine information information with a lens towards autism.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Back successful April, the caput held a property league connected what helium called the autism epidemic. And helium claimed that the media has an etiology of epidemic denial. That we are not asking capable questions astir wherefore determination is an uptick.
You wrote successful 1 of your documents present that determination was a spot of interest that you heard aft the caput spoke. What concerns were you hearing?
DEBRA HOURY: Even, you know, President Trump's archetypal surgeon general, Jerome Adams, enactment connected societal media astir however the caput truly focused connected profound autism and not truly looking astatine the full spectrum of autism and
MARGARET BRENNAN: Not looking astatine highly functional individuals.
DEBRA HOURY: Yes, and conscionable truly demeaning, you know, successful my mind, anybody with autism verses recognizing the conflict that individuals and families person and however we tin enactment them. And he, you know, truly benignant of misrepresented the data, similar conflating accusation connected states erstwhile a batch of it had to bash with detection. And if we had been capable to little him, similar I had suggested, you know, since it was a CDC paper, we could person walked done that with him. Like what the statistical investigation meant, what immoderate of these findings meant. But we weren't fixed that opportunity. And determination was backlash from galore successful the autism community, including groups similar Autism Speaks due to the fact that of however the caput spoke astir autism. And again, autism is impacting truthful galore families successful our nation. We request to look astatine it earnestly and not with a conspiracy lens similar the caput is doing.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You accidental a conspiracy lens. The secretary, from the podium, said –
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HHS SECRETARY: Somebody made a nett by putting that biology toxin into our air, our water, our medicines, our nutrient and it's to their payment to say, ohio – to normalize it, to say, ohio this is each normal. It's ever been here.
MARGARET BRENNAN: You judge helium had already concluded this and that's what you were hearing, the backlash.
DEBRA HOURY: It was besides that, you know, successful my e-mails you'll spot that helium has requested information from 30 positive years ago, from studies that person been replicated, that Congress has recovered that determination was nary wrongdoing on, due to the fact that helium was convinced that CDC was hiding accusation connected autism and vaccines.
Again, if we privation to bash studies looking astatine each of autism, you know, and vaccines arsenic a constituent of it, possibly that's OK. But looking astatine studies from 30 years agone that person truly been litigated implicit and over, that's a discarded of payer wealth and really, successful my mind, a disservice to families that privation to cognize what is causing autism successful their children and however tin you dainty it.
MARGARET BRENNAN: But helium seemed to judge that determination was a screen up?
DEBRA HOURY: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Within the CDC?
DEBRA HOURY: Yes. And he'd written astir that successful galore of his books arsenic well. When I was modulation lead, I prepared for his accomplishment by speechmaking galore of his books and taking notes. And I had truly looked astatine what were immoderate of the falsehoods successful those books and tried hopefully to person a treatment with him astir what we had recovered successful data, but that didn't happen.
MARGARET BRENNAN: In each of these documents determination besides seems to beryllium a taxable present of the governmental enactment being wholly retired of sync with the aesculapian professionals. And besides disconnected from the Trump administration's DOGE cuts.
DEBRA HOURY: Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: One of the secretary's immunodeficiency is e-mailing asking wherefore information crunching hadn't been done for weeks. And you explained the main information officer, and truthful galore radical connected the I.T. squad had conscionable been laid off.
DEBRA HOURY: Yes. Yes.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Did they not cognize astir the rifts and the layoffs?
DEBRA HOURY: It seems – you know, we had to truly stress that astatine aggregate points. You know, erstwhile I got asked astir a firefighter programme and what was the, you know, operating program to marque definite that programme was inactive successful place. And I explained, we don't person one. They've each been laid off. You know, you can't regenerate firefighters with an infectious illness specializer erstwhile they've been laid off.
So, similarly, erstwhile I got asked, wherefore is this taking truthful long, I said, you know, our main information officer, our main accusation officer, and the caput of our forecasting radical were each portion of the radical that was RIF, you know, simplification successful force, oregon transferred to the (INAUDIBLE) wellness work oregon enactment connected administrative leave. These cuts, erstwhile you suffer 30 percent of your workforce, and implicit clip we ended up losing astir 80 percent of our elder leaders, had a melodramatic interaction connected the functioning of the agency.
(END VT)
ED O'KEEFE: We've reached retired to some HHS and the White House for remark and person not heard back.
We'll beryllium backmost successful a moment.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
ED O'KEEFE: That's it for america today. Thanks for watching. Margaret volition beryllium backmost adjacent Sunday. Enjoy the remainder of the vacation weekend. Until then, for "FACE THE NATION," I'm Ed O'Keefe.
(ANNOUNCEMENTS)
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