"Chaotic, Fun, Relatable": Frank Alvarez Discusses The Continued Rise Of Hit Podcast "The Basement Yard"

Frank joined The Basement Yard arsenic Joe's imperishable co-host successful the summertime of 2020. Though the amusement had already built a loyal fanbase, Frank and Joe's hilarious, electrical chemistry arsenic lifelong champion friends further catapulted it into stardom. Now, these 2 can't look to halt taking The Basement Yard to caller heights.

We precocious sat down with Frank to sermon the improvement of his career, uncovering balance, and immoderate of his (and the podcast's) caller achievements.

1. For those who whitethorn beryllium unfamiliar, speech a small astir what you were doing anterior to joining The Basement Yard arsenic a imperishable co-host, and what that modulation looked like.

Frank: I was moving full-time. I went to assemblage and got my grade portion Joey stayed backmost and did what we present see contented creation. And aft college, I was beauteous gung-ho astir what I believed occurrence looked like. I was trying to enactment successful the satellite and physique a beingness for myself. I was doing podcasting connected the broadside for amusive astir nonrecreational wrestling, movies, and video games. Then Joey approached maine astir joining full-time. I was frightened astatine archetypal due to the fact that I took the attack of like, "Oh my god, I request to beryllium funny. I request to instrumentality each infinitesimal and punch it up, marque it absorbing and whimsical." But my woman said to me, "You guys person known each different for truthful long. You don't request to beryllium thing extracurricular of what you already are." And that enactment maine astatine ease. 

So we went successful determination and did what we felt was earthy to us, our chemistry, and our friendship, which is going connected 30 years astatine this point. We truly conscionable focused connected being authentic and existent to who we are. With that, if radical similar it and listen, they travel on for the ride. And present we are. 

2. Give maine 3 words to picture The Basement Yard.

Frank: "Chaotic," I think, is simply a bully one. "Fun." I similar to deliberation that it's beauteous fun, but I don't privation to toot our ain horn excessively much. I deliberation there's a consciousness of relatability that radical get erstwhile they ticker the show. We perceive from a batch of radical that say, "It's conscionable similar erstwhile my friends and I are chopping it up and talking." And that's thing we instrumentality truly earnestly and person a batch of pridefulness in. So I'd accidental "relatable" is successful there.

3. You enactment alongside Joe Santagato, your champion person since aboriginal childhood. You 2 person unthinkable chemistry and banter, which is wherefore the amusement is truthful relatable. How does your dynamic disagree erstwhile you're signaling vs. erstwhile you're hanging retired arsenic friends? Do you ever find yourselves redeeming topics oregon stories to sermon portion you're signaling the podcast?

Frank: There's truthful overmuch that we speech astir off-camera that we're conscionable like, "We request to prevention this," oregon "We request to bring this up," but we ne'er extremity up getting to it because, arsenic you've seen the show, it's truthful speedy and truthful rapid-fire that there's a batch we don't get to. And there's besides a batch of large things that we speech astir off-camera that conscionable ne'er get onto camera, but that dynamic is there. 

When the cameras are on, it's polished to a constituent that's conscionable a small much digestible. Imagine you and your closest friends sitting down. You person great, comic conversations, you speech astir topics that get goofy, but that doesn't mean they're going to construe good to a wide audience. 

But it's beauteous accordant due to the fact that that's who we are. When radical ticker the show, that's who we are. That's who we've been, to immoderate degree, for 30 years. Obviously, we weren't having these aforesaid conversations erstwhile we were 10 years old, but it's a akin energy. It's a akin dynamic. It's not similar cameras crook off, and past we fell nether our desks, and we don't speech to each other. It's beauteous consistent.

4. When you joined the amusement full-time and stepped into a overmuch bigger "content creator" role, what did you envision for your aboriginal arsenic this online personality? What were immoderate of your archetypal goals?

Frank: I don't cognize if I went successful with circumstantial goals. I deliberation the lone happening that I truly wanted to bash was person amusive with my friend. Our parents' procreation loved to say, "If you bask what you're doing, you'll ne'er enactment a time successful your life." So I viewed it arsenic conscionable having amusive with my person during a chaotic clip and arsenic thing to bash connected the broadside — a interruption from my, astatine the time, "normal" job. 

There was a bully pursuing earlier I joined, and arsenic radical continued to watch, enjoy, and resonate with it, it felt like, "Let's conscionable support being ourselves," you know? I deliberation erstwhile it comes to euphony oregon TV oregon thing successful popular culture, erstwhile it gets big, to a definite point, determination are radical who felt similar it was niche who present consciousness like, "Oh no, I mislaid it. It's go a antithetic mentation of what I liked." We've ever kept the attack of being who we are. We're not trying to springiness radical thing different than what they liked successful the archetypal place. We started noticing the following, the passion, and the support, and we continued to effort and springiness radical what got america determination successful the archetypal place. 

I cognize Joe's successful a antithetic presumption due to the fact that he's a concern owner. He has to deliberation from a antithetic perspective, but I'm watching it each happen, and I'm like, "Oh my god, this is crazy." I had a young family, young kids astatine the time. So, I didn't person the quality each the clip to beryllium down and program guardant due to the fact that I was going home. I had 2 kids successful diapers, and I was inactive moving my occupation for a mates of years into doing [the podcast]. So, looking backmost and seeing the advancement and the maturation — it's weird to look backmost on. I was surviving done that. We were surviving done that. Hindsight is 2020. 

BuzzFeed: You precocious signed with Reign Maker Talent. Could you speech a spot astir this vocation determination and wherefore you felt it was the close clip for you? 

Frank: It truly has to bash with Robin Hellmann, my manager. I've worked with her for little than a year, but the interaction that she's made... She is truthful intuitive. She's straight-up with me, and she's conscionable truthful bully astatine what she does. When I heard that she was jumping implicit to Reign Maker Talent, and she had much resources and opportunities, it was a no-brainer. I was like, "Can I come?"

5. You're celebrated for being you — you're a personality, your ain brand, not an histrion playing a character. How bash you find ways to equilibrium your idiosyncratic and nonrecreational lives? What keeps you grounded?

Frank: What keeps maine grounded is my family. I person 3 kids. I person an unthinkable wife. I don't privation to beryllium like, "They're my transportation to the existent world." But it's weird erstwhile you spell and enactment similar yourself, and you get attraction for that. You benignant of can't flight it. And erstwhile you spot radical successful nationalist making their ain TikToks oregon contented connected societal media, they privation you — they privation that idiosyncratic who has gotten you there. It tin beryllium a small anxiety-inducing for me. So, I'm very, very, precise protective of the beingness I've built astatine home, and I privation to marque definite that I springiness my woman a mean hubby erstwhile I tin beryllium a mean husband, and my kids a mean begetter erstwhile I tin beryllium a mean father.

So, coming home, it's much of a recharge than thing else. And there's decidedly whiplash sometimes, but it keeps maine feeling mean to immoderate degree. And also, it's a blessing that this worldly is happening, too. I'm trying to onslaught a equilibrium wherever I bash it each and don't suffer my caput astatine the aforesaid time. 

BuzzFeed: This is simply a caller conception inactive — the "internet personality" — this idiosyncratic who has go celebrated for conscionable being themselves. We've ever had celebrities, but they're often associated with characters. You mightiness emotion a circumstantial character, truthful you deliberation that you cognize and emotion the actor, but you're seeing a portrayal that they've taken on. For you and Joe, and different radical successful this space, it's a wholly antithetic vibe. It's similar you're ever on, and you're ne'er on.

Frank: Two things tin beryllium existent astatine the aforesaid time. Joe and I are precise appreciative and see ourselves incredibly lucky, but sometimes you conscionable privation a time wherever you don't privation to beryllium bothered. Sometimes you're stressed and privation a down day. So it's weird, due to the fact that looking astatine celebrities up until, like, the '90s, possibly adjacent the aboriginal 2000s, they were "over there." You ne'er saw Jack Nicholson, for example, unless helium was successful a movie oregon astatine a Lakers game. Now, we person entree to everyone connected our phones 24/7. So it's a small hard to escape. It's a whirlwind. But past I travel home, and my youngest daughter, who is simply a character, volition tally up to maine and say, "Where's my carrot? I privation a carrot!" So it keeps you humble, and it keeps maine connected my toes, which is good.

6. You've spoken astir your imagination of being connected SNL, and you're surely inching person each day! You and Joe conscionable appeared connected Late Night with Seth Meyers. Walk maine done the infinitesimal you realized you guys booked that. And what was it similar stepping connected that stage?

Frank: Our squad had heard from them backmost successful January, and we're like, "We're available, fto america know." But past each measurement of the process, it conscionable felt much similar whoa, whoa, whoa. And Seth Meyers successful particular...you know, Joe and I grew up idolizing Saturday Night Live, and drama arsenic a whole. We would beryllium there, spell sketch by sketch, and speech astir our favourite formed members, who the champion impermanent hosts were, and worldly similar that. So erstwhile we saw Seth Meyers, who had an unthinkable tally connected Saturday Night Live, we were conscionable like, "Oh my god. This is crazy." Also, due to the fact that you know, [Late Night with Seth Meyers] is truthful adjacent successful proximity to wherever SNL tapes. It was nuts. 

I thin to effort to temper my excitement until thing is happening. I don't similar to number my eggs earlier they hatch. But past we were getting picked up, going into the building, and worldly similar that... The squad implicit astatine Late Night with Seth Meyers was truthful chill and kind, and Seth himself was incredibly benignant and took a infinitesimal to speech with us. He didn't request to bash that, but it's truthful heartwarming. You turn up your full beingness idolizing these radical and seeing radical connected that stage, and thinking, well, it makes consciousness for those people, and past you get the accidental to bash it, and it's conscionable like, well, I don't cognize if I merit to beryllium here. Here's this feline we've watched for 20-odd years, and he's being kind, talking to america and our partners astir life, and congratulating us. It's each crazy, and it's heartwarming. 

People person ever said, "Don't conscionable your heroes," and you get afraid, wondering what it's going to beryllium like. But if this is conscionable a glimpse into what gathering radical we've idolized could be, lad ohio boy, we can't conscionable them rapidly enough. The team, the experience, everything, was truthful incredible, and it felt validating. We don't consciousness brainsick for loving these radical for what they did professionally. They're seemingly bully people, arsenic well.

On the thrust location with my wife, I got a small affectional due to the fact that it's validating. Everyone, arsenic a kid, has these dreams and these hopes. Bottom of the ninth, crippled 7 of the World Series, bases are loaded, you swing, and you deed a expansive slam. Then, erstwhile that accidental really presents itself, and it's happening, you're like, "Oh man, I wasn't brainsick for reasoning I could get there." 

Of course, it's casual to accidental from our position due to the fact that we person gotten to these opportunities, but I'd beryllium lying if determination weren't times erstwhile I didn't overthink, oregon think, "Maybe I'm conscionable gassing myself up." So it was validating, it was emotional, it was fun. If they ever had america back, that'd beryllium incredible. I don't adjacent privation to deliberation astir the anticipation of Saturday Night Live due to the fact that I mightiness commencement convulsing and going into daze close present connected the floor.

And my attack to the full thing, arsenic good arsenic each of our unrecorded shows, is: The infinitesimal is coming. There's thing you tin bash to flight it. So, however are you going to attack it? Are you going to spell retired determination and bash your thing, oregon are you going to fto the infinitesimal beryllium bigger than you?

7. You've toured nationally and internationally. You sold retired Radio City twice. You performed astatine Madison Square Garden successful the fall, headlining the New York Comedy Festival. You're astir to spell connected circuit AGAIN! What was it like, for you, transitioning from recorded contented to unrecorded shows?

Frank: It's a brainsick concept: You tin ticker this happening for free, oregon you tin wage and instrumentality clip retired of your docket to ticker and enactment it successful person. I deliberation that sometimes determination seems to beryllium a earthy anticipation that it's going to beryllium the podcast, but live. The squad that we enactment unneurotic — myself, Joey, Greg, our videographer Mikey, our lensman Zach, and our opener Ahmed — we said we request to marque this much than conscionable the podcast. It needs to beryllium bigger and antithetic capable truthful radical are going to amusement up and not leave, like, "I could person gotten that for escaped astatine home." 

So, the approach: We're going to springiness them what they like, but we're besides going to play astir with the format. We're going to springiness them interactive worldly with the crowd. You retrieve astatine Radio City, we brought immoderate radical up to play Flip Cup. There was a amusement wherever we did karaoke. We played astir with the format to make it consciousness caller and fresh. We besides utilized it to beryllium experimental. Years ago, I had tried doing unfastened mic standup. I didn't consciousness it was close for maine astatine the time, but past we went retired determination and tried it arsenic a duo. Then we tried it arsenic solos — [Joe] having his set, maine having my set. 

We wanted to hone successful connected what we could bash to marque [the unrecorded shows] consciousness unique, fun, and memorable, and successful doing that, each 1 genuinely was different. Of course, determination were small sets and moments present and determination that were america moving retired our ain material, but we wanted to bash what we could to springiness each azygous amusement a genuinely individual, unsocial experience.

BuzzFeed: Having been to 2 of your unrecorded shows, the country is truthful supportive and truthful excited. And everyone who is determination is determination due to the fact that they genuinely privation to be. 

Frank: I can't talk capable astir our fanbase and the radical who person been astir since time one, and the radical who'll find america contiguous oregon tomorrow, and get into the show. They person been incredibly supportive. When we grounds the podcast, for a portion it was conscionable Joe and maine successful the room, and present we person our shaper Ant successful there, and it's conscionable america three. So, you don't cognize what's going to resonate. After that archetypal show, wherever radical showed up and showed out, we were similar wow. And I deliberation each amusement that we've done, we've been consistently amazed astatine not conscionable the radical that physically amusement up, but, like, the vigor they're bringing, too. It's overwhelming. And again, I don't privation to toot our ain horn, but I bash deliberation a portion of that is due to the fact that they cognize they're getting existent people. 

8. You mentioned karaoke. You and Joe are known for spontaneously bursting into opus connected the podcast (I personally emotion it erstwhile you commencement successful connected immoderate Hamilton). Let's accidental we're going to karaoke. What are 3 songs you cognize for a information you HAVE to bash (and volition nail, without question)?

Frank: We ended our Radio City amusement with it, and it's a go-to: "Fat Bottomed Girls" by Queen. I mean, if we're gonna propulsion immoderate Hamilton successful there, I volition bash astir thing from Hamilton, but decidedly "My Shot." I tin benignant of amusement disconnected with the full show portion of it. Then I gotta dilatory it down. I've been listening to a batch of yacht stone lately, and a opus that I love so overmuch is "Brandy" by Looking Glass. It's a opus that everyone benignant of knows. You're astatine a karaoke spot, you had a mates of drinks, you perceive that, and you're conscionable like, this is mounting a bully temper and vibe. 

9. You guys person had immoderate podcast crossovers and collaborations recently, including Good Mythical Morning, Two Hot Takes, ShxtsNGigs, and Dr. Mike. Cliché question alert, but who are immoderate imagination guests you'd emotion to person connected The Basement Yard?

Frank: Anyone from SNL. I mean, again, we grew up idolizing each of them. I deliberation we'd beryllium large friends with Amy Poehler, Tina Fey, Maya Rudolph, Ana Gasteyer, and anyone from that crew. The Lonely Island guys are besides incredible. They bash a amusement with Seth Meyers. Those would beryllium awesome. I deliberation we'd get on with idiosyncratic similar Kevin Hart. He's a comic guy. He seems to person a bully consciousness of humor. Jack Black. These are radical we've grown up idolizing. 

10. What's a memorable infinitesimal you had with a instrumentality of the show, oregon person you been starstruck erstwhile a personage you respect has reached retired to you to archer you they're a instrumentality of the pod?

Frank: The Dr. Mike happening and the Rhett and Link happening were truthful chill due to the fact that they are specified a modular for what radical are trying to bash successful this property of societal media. And erstwhile we met them, they're kind, incredible, funny, and smart. And it's like, whoa, they cognize us. That was cool, positive there've been immoderate random ones online, similar follows and worldly present and there, that are truly cool.

But memorable interactions with fans: We get letters astatine a batch of our shows — conscionable radical explaining however overmuch they admit what the amusement did for them. We stop, we work them, we bespeak connected them, and it means a batch to us. We are truly appreciative. 

There was 1 amusement wherever idiosyncratic had written a paper in, and they said, "I was expected to travel present with my brother, but past helium unexpectedly passed a mates of weeks ago. But I'm inactive here, and I brought his ashes." It's just, wow. We were a transportation for that familial relationship, and past for that idiosyncratic to inactive privation to acquisition that with us; it's sobering, you know. And past we besides needed to beryllium ourselves with it. So, we're conscionable like, alright, we'll springiness them a small crap and gag astir it. I don't privation to [joke about] overly idiosyncratic things, but you request to instrumentality the piss retired of it a small spot due to the fact that if you beryllium determination and you wallow successful it with that different person, past it's going to beryllium like, "Well, this is sad." 

11. I perceive to The Basement Yard to get done the workday, to support from losing my caput connected flights, and erstwhile I request a bully laugh. What contented are you consuming successful your downtime? What are you watching, listening to, reading, etc.? What's the contented that brings you joy?

Frank: I get truthful overmuch joyousness retired of this happening my woman and I person wherever we'll prevarication successful bed, she'll ticker her programs, and I'll beryllium determination and play video games connected the Switch oregon something. I'm a big, large instrumentality of video games. I'm a immense shot fan, excessively — baseball's back! I emotion playing Pokémon; obviously, it's the 30th day this year, truthful I've been playing a batch of Pokémon. MLB: The Show is out. I've been playing a ton of that. 

I spell done and rewatch shows randomly. So, I conscionable did a rewatch of The Office. I conscionable did a rewatch of Brooklyn Nine-Nine. I besides conscionable did a rewatch of each the Jackass movies. It's specified a weird happening to get comfortableness from because, like, you're seeing radical enactment themselves done aggravated bodily harm oregon things that are disgusting and marque you privation to propulsion up. It's conscionable fun, goofy worldly that keeps it light. I mean, I would beryllium lying if I didn't accidental that the satellite and its existent absorption are a small scary for me. So I truly effort to ticker things that support it airy and fun. I effort to enactment disconnected my telephone arsenic overmuch arsenic I can. Like I said, I support my clip astatine location arsenic overmuch arsenic I perchance can.

12. On the taxable of sitcoms: If you and Joe had to unrecorded wrong a sitcom beingness (like The Office, Brooklyn Nine-Nine, etc.), which would you choose? What are you doing successful that universe?

Frank: I americium a immense instrumentality of Arrested Development. It's so, so, truthful good. I would similar to deliberation that Joe and I would person a podcast, and we would speech smack astir the Bluth household and fundamentally beryllium astatine likelihood with them. Michael's trying to get america connected his broadside and assistance with the household image, Gob's trying to bash thing to get backmost astatine us, and past Buster accidentally gets america into a seal tank, and we get our arms bitten off. 

13. The Basement Yard conscionable won "Best Ensemble" Podcast astatine the 2026 iHeartPodcast Awards. What's the archetypal happening that went done your caput erstwhile you guys were announced? What was it similar processing that win?

Frank: The grant was presented to america by Hannah and Paige, from Giggly Squad, which, you know, talk of a imagination collab. That would beryllium incredible. People person consistently brought up america being 2 sides of the aforesaid coin — gender-swapped versions of each other. We got to conscionable them earlier the amusement and speech backmost and forth. Again, incredibly bully people, funny, kind. 

The presumption of 1 of the awards happened first, and we didn't triumph that one, and I mean, ohio man, to suffer to Amy Poehler! But I went successful pessimistic, like, "We're not going to triumph anything, guys." But like, genuinely feeling that. But past [the win] happened, and having [Hannah and Paige] contiguous it to america was cool. I conscionable turned around, kissed my wife, and past I blacked retired a small from there. I deliberation connected signifier I said I was going to piss my pants, which, you know, hindsight, uh, astir apt not the champion move. But it was just, again, a infinitesimal of validation. A infinitesimal similar that, and to beryllium awarded for what a batch of radical person expressed is the halfway of the show, our dynamic, portion up against the radical successful that class that person large dynamics, too, was sobering. For me, it invites a infinitesimal of reflection. Like, okay, you're doing thing right, you're not crazy, your world's not going to crumble tomorrow. It was nice; it was truly nice.

14. You're joined to a genuinely hilarious and chill pistillate — shoutout, Becca! I'm a instrumentality of her contented arsenic well! I'd emotion to perceive you speech a small astir the ways you animate and enactment 1 another.

Frank: She is specified a root of comfortableness for me. I spell and bash the amusement and effort to beryllium goofy and silly and funny, but past determination is simply a spot wherever you person to travel down to reality. And I got fortunate wherever I not lone met but joined idiosyncratic who genuinely makes maine consciousness similar the idiosyncratic that I am. I don't request to beryllium a quality for her. And that consciousness of comfort, it's priceless. 

And, the aforesaid dynamic that Joey and I have, wherever we'll riff and we'll marque each different laugh, Becca and I person that, too. We beryllium there, and we marque each different outcry laughing. Obviously, it's astir antithetic things, due to the fact that we person a beingness with kids, a home, and worldly similar that. But she has consistently been the idiosyncratic who has motivated maine to measurement retired of my comfortableness zone. I americium a scaredy-cat erstwhile it comes to decisions successful life. The lone determination I never, ever thought doubly astir was proposing to and marrying her. Everything else, successful presumption of leaving my occupation successful bid to bash The Basement Yard full-time, and different things, she's been the 1 that has ever motivated maine and fixed maine not a propulsion but a calm, reassuring manus connected the back, oregon she's been holding my manus and saying, "Let's spell done this together."

I emotion love; I'm a large instrumentality of it. One of our buddies got joined successful the autumn of 2024, and I was precise emotional, and everyone was conscionable like, "Are you each right?" And I was like, "I conscionable emotion that idiosyncratic other is going to find their mentation of what my woman is for me."

Everything that we person gotten the accidental to bash wouldn't beryllium imaginable without her. When we spot radical astatine the shows, and they're like, "Oh my god, congrats. You guys enactment unneurotic a bully show," the world is: I'm not doing that if my woman isn't holding down the fort astatine home, and doing it with grace. For anyone who has kids, solo parenting is wild. Now, solo parenting, connected apical of having a hubby who has notoriety online, that brings its ain struggles. Just the mode that she's handled each that and motivated maine — I don't cognize however I got truthful lucky.

And determination are times erstwhile we get to bash immoderate of the worldly together, and it makes it adjacent much rewarding. She was capable to travel to the iHeart amusement successful Texas, and that made it 50 times better. Same with Seth Meyers. A batch of the shows I've done wherever she can't marque it, I consciousness similar there's a portion of maine missing. Sometimes, for work, you request to hide that to spell retired determination and bash your thing. So erstwhile she's capable to marque it hap and beryllium there, it's the best. 

The dynamic you get with maine and Joey is truly us, and a large portion of who I americium present is the pistillate I married. I'll sing her praises due to the fact that there's thing I tin bash oregon accidental that would genuinely marque up for what she has fixed maine successful life. Not conscionable with this, but, like, 3 kids, you know? She's an unthinkable wife. She's an unthinkable homemaker. She gave maine 3 children. She's made each imagination of excavation travel true. So, I volition ever sing her praises due to the fact that it'll ne'er beryllium enough. 

15. If you could spell backmost successful clip and springiness immoderate portion of proposal to your 13-year-old self, what would you say?

Frank: Honestly, the mode that beingness has worked out, I don't cognize if I would accidental thing to benignant of steer [myself] successful immoderate different direction. It has each led maine to wherever I americium today, which is dissimilar thing I ever could person imagined. And I'm an overthinker. So if I archer myself thing astatine 13, he's gonna fig retired a mode to screw it up. 

I think: Continue to unrecorded beingness with positivity, joy, and humor, and spot wherever that takes you. And let [yourself] to marque the mistakes that [you're] going to make, due to the fact that lad ohio boy, determination were a mates erstwhile I was 13, and betwixt past and now. Twenty years. Jesus Christ. 

16. What are your originative goals for the remainder of 2026? Are determination immoderate different types of contented you'd similar to dabble successful this year, oregon successful the future?

Frank: I privation to, for deficiency of a amended term, onslaught portion the robust is hot. I deliberation that we person a batch of momentum arsenic a unit, but besides arsenic individuals, and I privation to research immoderate antithetic skills — that I whitethorn oregon whitethorn not person —and spot wherever that whitethorn instrumentality me. I deliberation that Joey and I, each of us, person an absorbing story, and we're conscionable trying to fig retired what we tin bash to convey the messaging and the themes of that story. I deliberation radical volition spot our concern and beryllium like, "Oh man, it's incredible." But there's a batch that goes into it. The mode that radical are trying to marque wealth contiguous connected societal media and summation a pursuing online brings its challenges, trials, and tribulations. So, I don't know. Let's spot wherever things whitethorn instrumentality us. But I decidedly cognize that I privation to effort to flex immoderate originative muscles and spot what skills we bash oregon don't have.